Brand new p5 troubles

Hi fauzigarib,

There is not a specific setting that will work for all units.
The Phase tune allows the unit to move when it looks for the incoming AC waveform’s zero crossing point.
The point at which the incoming voltage is 0 VAC.
Thus you will need to experiment.
Try making a one increment change and allowing the regenerator a minute to adjust.
Then observe the THD output.
Make a note if it changes up or down.
Then repeat by making another incremental change in the opposite direction.
It should become apparent if this adjustment is having any impact on the THD either way.
Please reach out to me with the results when you have a chance,

Thanks,

  • Jeremy

Fauzi,

Here is one of my older posts on phase tune which may be of interest and help, click.


So I read the link you pointed to. Assuming the p5 is working fine, it seems that any change you make assumes the incoming power to be of a certain character CONSISTENTLY.

For example, over the past few days the until has been giving good power st a thd of 0.1%.

Then for some reason the voltage dropped and thd sky rocketed. If changing the phase increment helps during those times, what about the times when the incoming power was behaving well?

Warmest Regards,

Fauzi Garib

Hi fauzigarib,

The unit is designed to detect the incoming voltage.
If the AC input drops below or goes above a certain level it can cause the unit to behave strangely.
Typically the unit will shut down but if the input voltage is at the threshold of shutdown the THD is the first value to be affected.

It really sounds like the incoming AC power is giving this unit all of the trouble we are facing.
Are you able to use an uninterruptible power supply?
One with a pure sine wave output should work with the P5 to regulate the AC power.

As well I can recommend that you make sure that the unit’s firmware is fully up to date to version 00.41.

Let me know if this is helpful.
Thanks,

  • Jeremy


Currently the unit is on a ups. The picture that I had sent is of the unit on the ups.

When the unit is behaving, it is showing an out thd of 0.1%.

The picture I sent is of the unit showing 2 point something on the display, and right after that when I turn the amps on, the output voltage starts to drop to 180 something.

Warmest Regards,

Fauzi Garib

I really think your dealer should loan you another P5 to see if they behave the same. If the loaner behaves and yours doesn’t, that is a definitive answer to the problem.

Brodic, that would be perfect.

Unfortunately, dealers in Pakistan generally order on a as-needed basis and do not generally have showrooms etc. And that is part of my frustration… I’m such a HUGE fan of PS Audio products, that I would expect their dealers to have a very basic level of service providing at the very least. Right now, I am out of pocket several thousand dollars, with no immediate resolution to my problem.

Anyway, just to summarize my issue:

  • Right out of the box, I had severe drops of voltage and spikes in THD OUT, as soon as I put the unit on load. As per the p5’s scope, INPUT voltage and thd were both stable. This was with the p5 plugged into the wall.
  • Updated the firmware
  • The issue immediately presented itself, but then disappeared for about 3-4 days.
  • Happened again after this time.
  • I put the unit on a UPS, and seemed fine for a bit, and then the issue occurred once again.

I’m happy to have my unit looked at, exchanged, whatever, but as quickly as possible, please!!

-Fauzi

That is very disappointing to hear and not what I would expect from a PS Audio dealer. Dealers should be more than “box shifters”. They should maintain a showroom and stock on hand, and provide first level local support to their customers.

I totally agree with you. In fact, in the past decade or so, there has been a growing number of premium brands represented in Pakistan. Prior to that, our high end purchases would be a crap shoot at best, and if something went wrong, would end up looking like Frankenstein’s monster.

All of my Nagra front end was bought through a dealer. There was an issue with the preamp, the problem was diagnosed and repaired, all while the unit was out of my possession for a total of four days! The dealer told me that he has no choice but to give that level of service as Nagra themselves demand it.

At these price points, I expect better service from not only the dealer, but the principal themselves.

Hate to air my dirty laundry like this, but so so frustrated!

-F

I suspect PS Audio have expected service level agreements with their International distributors and dealers. Maybe something VP International Sales might clarify. Dealers who just do box shifting is not good enough and I suspect falls short of PS Audio expectations.

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You’re right, Brodic. I would expect nothing less from a company like PS Audio. I’ve been a HUGE fan since the Digital Link 3 dac. In fact, been salivating over (and negotiating) 2 pairs of the BHK monos… Still think my Directstream Jr is one of the best sources that I’ve had in my system, and then it outdid itself with RedCloud.

But recently I’ve seen a disturbing trend of little issues that are going wrong, which, if there was an agent close by who had a service center, would be negligibly small. I really feel that if the principal is to be successful in a market, they need to get the agent up to a certain level of service, and pick up the slack until that is done. My two cents…

Apologies for taking the discussion (WAAAAYYY) off track.

-F

Hi all,

Just an update for all those contributed to this conversation… Service apparently got in touch with my dealer and have sent out some parts that perhaps are faulty. Dealer, in turn has reached out to me to ship the unit to him (he lives in a different city). I have done that just this morning and he should get it by tomorrow.

Meantime, I thought I would give it one last try in my system before sending it out. In both High Regulation and Low Distortion modes, it didn’t seem to be regulating the voltage at all (either from the wall or from the UPS). In would be 221, and out would be 221, thd in 2% out 1% (as opposed to 0.1% that it was giving a couple days prior)… And then randomly, voltage would plummet to 180 or so and there would be clicking noises coming from the unit, as if relays were switching on and off.

Have my fingers crossed…

Hi Fauzi,

I have almost the exact same problem with one of the two new P10s I bought about six months ago. The source AC at my home in Hong Kong typically fluctuates in a tight band between 223-227V with THD between 0.9-1.6%; my settings on the P10 are: 231V output, MW 3, and low distortion - which both units consistently deliver most of the time.

The anomaly typically appears in the following manner. I say typically, because apart from two occasions when I heard strange noises right before it started misbehaving, on other occasions l wasn’t present and hence I didn’t hear anything. Hence I can’t be 100% sure of the attribution of the noise to the problem.

The problematic unit briefly emits a strange clicking / groaning noise for a few seconds, then proceeds to lose its ability to regulate the output voltage, with the scope then showing both the voltage and THD closely matching the source AC’s characteristics. Rebooting and resetting the unit sometimes results in the output voltage sagging below the line voltage at 209V. Rebooting again results in the unit outputting AC which is identical to the input AC line. Occasionally, if the unit is left alone in this state, it resets to output the desired output settings. This unpredictable and temperamental behavior is quite frustrating.

The other unit has not exhibited any such behavior since my purchase.

My dealer has agreed to provide me a loaner unit until the problematic unit is troubleshooted and repaired, but that’s not scheduled until next month (May).

Please keep us updated on the status of your unit - I’m very curious which internal components are faulty! Thank you.

When this happens your P10 has gone into protection mode. This means the regenerator is removed from the circuit and that click you hear is that happening. Now you’re on standard wall voltage until the protection circuit decides it’s safe again for the regenerator. During downtime for the regenerator your system is still fully protected from surges and spikes, just not regenerated.

This typically happens when the line voltage drops below that which the P10 can no longer handle.

Hi Paul, thanks for your response. But it’s still a puzzle to me. I have four dedicated lines, each with its own AC duplex. Of the two units, only exhibits this behavior of resetting. I wonder why? Is there a threshold for the trigger which can be made less sensitive?

Not anything that can be user adjustable. Try moving the P10 to another of the dedicated lines and see if the same behavior continues. If so, maybe that one needs some love from us.

Paul, I’ll try swapping my two P10s, by reversing their locations.

As the dedicated AC lines and duplex outlets are sourced from the same MCB on the wall, the AC source should be exactly the same; and there’s no reason the AC should trigger the protection mode because it’s very stable, never (?) sagging below 222V (as far as I know).

Let’s see whether the problems I’ve been having with my single P10 goes away. Otherwise, it will need to go back into the repair shop.

Hi all…

Just an update… Have sent my unit back to the dealer and (according to him), psa has sent a main motherboard replacement, which should fix the item once and for all. Also seems thst he was able to duplicate the behavior at his place… (thank God it wasn’t just me…) video below:

https://youtu.be/cgy9x3XumA4

Just waiting to see what happens. I hope the mb has been sent so that I can get the unit up and running.

Fauzi

Good news. Hope this does it, and quickly.

Excellent!

Please let us know if this solves the problems you have experienced.