Using microR with LANRover.
Rob H. saidrogerdn said Hi Rob, my microRendu was a big sq improvement over anything before, stock PC with FIdelizer, SonicOrbiter, then adding the LanRover a few days ago was another big step up but don't have a Bridge to compare to.Roger –
So, you’ve combined the LANRover with the µRendu, or did you replace the µRendu?
I’m wondering if there’s a possibility of Paul weighing in this week on a question: Has PS Audio ever compared the LANRover/USB against the Bridge II in an A/B situation? If so, how do they stack up?
It really depends on what the LANRover USB setup is being fed, to be honest. When I compare my hot rodded Mac Mini/LANRover setup to the Bridge II, I’d say they’re pretty darned close - nearly identical, with the Bridge II a slight winner depending on which USB cable I use.
The difference comes down to usability. If you want to use Roon as your control point, then the Bridge is a no-brainer. Roon played through the USB/LANRover path does not sound as good - not even close - as does Bit Perfect controlled by iTunes.
If through the Bridge, then Roon works and sounds just fine.
Until Roon was an option for the Bridge II, I was using Roon + HQ Player thru USB and the sound (although being counter intuitive for some, given the nature of HQP) was fantastic. Once the bridge became “Roonable” I came back to ethernet + Bridge II, and the results are as better as they were with the above mentioned USB combination. Thus, the only combination I dream of is that of Bridge II + Roon + HQ Player on ethernet, but it does not seem possible on the short run…
ridom said Until Roon was an option for the Bridge II, I was using Roon + HQ Player thru USB and the sound (although being counter intuitive for some, given the nature of HQP) was fantastic. Once the bridge became "Roonable" I came back to ethernet + Bridge II, and the results are as better as they were with the above mentioned USB combination. Thus, the only combination I dream of is that of Bridge II + Roon + HQ Player on ethernet, but it does not seem possible on the short run...Ridom --
One of the issues that I’ve always wrestled with is that output from Roon/HQPlayer is nowhere near as good as PureMusic/iTunes. I’ve changed up a lot of settings on HQP, even going flat with no filters, or Roon by itself. Many have suggested the best sound comes from Roon, but my experiences are exactly the opposite.
This is one reason why, though I’d like to try the Bridge II, I have doubts that Roon/Bridge will be able to approach PM/iTunes.
Of course, the balance on this is that the Roon experience is a rich one. Now, if only they (and Tidal) would improve their search engines…
Rob H. saidWell.........It sounds like your 'Roon experience' would be better enjoyed via the BridgeII. On the other hand, it's likely that you wouldn't notice any difference in sound quality with your other sources. So, in an effort to help you weave your way to a decision, how important is Roon to you?So, can anybody help me to weave my way through to a decision, based on my rather simple setup?
If you can get up into your attic and move around without too much difficulty, running an Ethernet cable between rooms isn’t that disruptive (no need to tear out drywall/open up walls). An electrician’s “fish tape” will make the process relatively…er…less of a pain in the arse. If getting to and moving around in your attic is out of the question, then be happy with what you already have…that, or move the router!!
timequest said
Well.........It sounds like your 'Roon experience' would be better enjoyed via the BridgeII. On the other hand, it's likely that you wouldn't notice any difference in sound quality with your other sources. So, in an effort to help you weave your way to a decision, how important is Roon to you?
Indeed, the beer would be helpful if I were to fish wires. I’ve done it here before, but it’s not much fun.
The placement logistics of the equipment aren’t all that difficult, just bothersome. I’d move the router and modem, but all told it’s a three-box set from my provider. Ugly-as-sin doesn’t belong in the living room. 
To answer your question, the jury is still out for us on Roon/Tidal, all in all.
First, Roon’s livelihood is currently hinged on integration with Tidal, but who knows how long Tidal will be around? And if Tidal goes away or gets euthanized by a company such as Apple, the sound quality of Roon would not be good enough to justify keeping it to enhance my library of rips; I’d much rather listen to my own stuff via PureMusic/iTunes.
Another factor that I don’t hear mentioned very often: While Roon/Tidal offer a world of listening opportunities, I find that searching for things is not as delightful as it could be. For example, I know that many people curate playlists, but beyond a few playlists arranged by genre, they are difficult to discover. Even if someone points you to a curated playlist, if you misspell it even a little – even so far as putting in a capital letter instead of lowercase – the search can fail. I won’t even mention the kind of (so-called) music that Jay-Z would like to bring to our attention via the front page.
Perhaps such things will get better over time, or maybe someone might provide some hints here for making navigation a bit easier.
I’m just sort of teeter-tottering on the basic configuration here. Clearly, there are advantages and disadvantages to either approach. The good news is that the sound via USB with the LANRover far exceeds what I’ve had before.
Thanks,
Rob
Any opinions on the sonic benefits of this?
I’m thinking of replacing the stock power supply on the LANRover with something like the iFi iPower.
While I could get my Mojo Joule V upgraded, it’s far more expensive and requires substantial downtime.
Thanks!
Rob H. said Any opinions on the sonic benefits of this?I’m thinking of replacing the stock power supply on the LANRover with something like the iFi iPower.
While I could get my Mojo Joule V upgraded, it’s far more expensive and requires substantial downtime.
Thanks!
I tried both replacing the PS with LPS (HDPlex in my case) and with replacing standard CAT 6e Ethernet cable with AQ Diamond. Neither made any discernible difference on my system which is fairly resolving (dCS, Constellation Performance, and Raidho).
ksalno saidRob H. said Any opinions on the sonic benefits of this?I’m thinking of replacing the stock power supply on the LANRover with something like the iFi iPower.
While I could get my Mojo Joule V upgraded, it’s far more expensive and requires substantial downtime.
Thanks!
I tried both replacing the PS with LPS (HDPlex in my case) and with replacing standard CAT 6e Ethernet cable with AQ Diamond. Neither made any discernible difference on my system which is fairly resolving (dCS, Constellation Performance, and Raidho).
Many thanks for this information! You have saved me some bucks. This tells me that PSA did a good design job with the Lan Rover.
Paul McGowan saidRob H. saidrogerdn said Hi Rob, my microRendu was a big sq improvement over anything before, stock PC with FIdelizer, SonicOrbiter, then adding the LanRover a few days ago was another big step up but don't have a Bridge to compare to.Roger –
So, you’ve combined the LANRover with the µRendu, or did you replace the µRendu?
I’m wondering if there’s a possibility of Paul weighing in this week on a question: Has PS Audio ever compared the LANRover/USB against the Bridge II in an A/B situation? If so, how do they stack up?
It really depends on what the LANRover USB setup is being fed, to be honest. When I compare my hot rodded Mac Mini/LANRover setup to the Bridge II, I’d say they’re pretty darned close - nearly identical, with the Bridge II a slight winner depending on which USB cable I use.
The difference comes down to usability. If you want to use Roon as your control point, then the Bridge is a no-brainer. Roon played through the USB/LANRover path does not sound as good - not even close - as does Bit Perfect controlled by iTunes.
If through the Bridge, then Roon works and sounds just fine.
So if I understand you correctly, streaming a local device there is not much difference but streaming Tidal the bridge wins?
Thanks
Hopefully, those here will allow me one more fundamentally unenlightened question:
Suppose I got a Bridge II and went ethernet directly from the Mac Mini to the Bridge II. I understand that the Bridge is “Roon ready,” which is good, but can I also direct output from iTunes, with or without PureMusic, via the same connection? Or, do I have to have one ethernet connection to the Bridge for Roon, and one USB connection for “other” output?
Rob H. said Hopefully, those here will allow me one more fundamentally unenlightened question:Suppose I got a Bridge II and went ethernet directly from the Mac Mini to the Bridge II. I understand that the Bridge is “Roon ready,” which is good, but can I also direct output from iTunes, with or without PureMusic, via the same connection? Or, do I have to have one ethernet connection to the Bridge for Roon, and one USB connection for “other” output?
Upp… I’m going to answer my own question, given that I’ve been digging around more instead of just asking questions. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong in any of the following.
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I see that Bridge II requires UPnP, and that the ethernet connection runs from the router to the ethernet input on the bridge.
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Running directly ethernet-out from the Mac Mini is not an option. I thought it was.
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iTunes is not UPnP compatible. Neither is PureMusic, as far as I can tell.
So, unless I set up UPnP with a router-based setup, direct connections to the Mini are not possible with the Bridge II.
If all this is correct, good thing I have a LANRover. I’d really get flummoxed if I had to set up UPnP, networks, and move to something like JRiver. I just can’t see how it would be worth it if the LANRover comes close to the Bridge II in terms of SQ. Going Bridge also seems much more complicated – at least to me – than I would like to tackle.
Rob,
You can connect a computer directly to the DS via ethernet if you use a crossover cable. I have no idea if SQ is better (or worse) this way than via a router/network switch, or if it matters.
You would still need UPnP software to play the music, though. I’d recommend MinimServer; it’s donationware so you can try without laying out any money. There are other choices, including the infamous JRiver.
You may indeed be just as well off to stick with your current setup, but I thought I’d mention these options.
For what it is worth, I find Bridge II on par with the very best efforts of USB - including LANRover, JCat USB, Bit Perfect and a tricked out Mac Mini. That’s the good news.
What I don’t like about Bridge II is the lack of a decent user experience - except when Roon is involved. There, the user experience is excellent, though the sound quality isn’t quite up to par - though it is close.
Roon through USB is clearly inferior sound to my Bit Perfect iTunes setup - much better and nearly perfect through Bridge II.
It really boils down to making a choice of convenience. The USN/LANRover route is pretty direct and gives the best performance combo - but not a great user experience.
The Roon/Bridge II gives nearly the same performance with a great user experience, though you have to pay for Roon.
For most people, I’d recommend Bridge II/Roon.
Thanks for the input, Paul. In fact, I’m going to download BitPerect to see how it fares in my setup.
Though I’ve been toying with the idea of the Bridge II, I’m not sure that going through the network/UPnP/NAS headaches will be worth the effort for my purposes. Right now, the LANRover brings in good sound, is simple, easy to setup, etc. I like it well enough.
Sometimes I feel like a Luddite, but I do like to keep things as simple as possible.
Paul has summarized very well the SQ considerations when choosing USB vs Bridge. I think, though, that people who are considering a Bridge should not be put off by the phrase “lack of a decent user experience” without Roon.
Roon is visually rich and offers the ability to explore new music easily. The latter is particularly useful. But I think that BubbleUPnP (Android) or Linn Kazoo + BubbleUPnP Server (iOS) are perfectly good. (I do agree that most other control points are lacking.) Furthermore, Roon is not the best choice for serious classical music listeners because its metadata support is far less sophisticated than what one can get with UPnP software like MinimServer.
An ethernet-based setup does not have to be complicated: mine consists of a NAS, a network switch, and the DS DAC along with a tablet. Folks who are happy with an existing computer/USB setup don’t need to get a Bridge, particularly if they have invested in a LANRover or other devices to deal with the USB noise issues. Those who are starting out or who are interested in upgrading their setup (for instance, to store all their files in one location accessible from anywhere in the house) via ethernet should not worry that they have to get Roon, unless they value its particular strengths.
Rob H. said Thanks for the input, Paul. In fact, I'm going to download BitPerect to see how it fares in my setup.Though I’ve been toying with the idea of the Bridge II, I’m not sure that going through the network/UPnP/NAS headaches will be worth the effort for my purposes. Right now, the LANRover brings in good sound, is simple, easy to setup, etc. I like it well enough.
Sometimes I feel like a Luddite, but I do like to keep things as simple as possible.
Sometimes we all feel like Luddites! Me too!
Paul McGowan saidRob H. said Thanks for the input, Paul. In fact, I'm going to download BitPerect to see how it fares in my setup.Though I’ve been toying with the idea of the Bridge II, I’m not sure that going through the network/UPnP/NAS headaches will be worth the effort for my purposes. Right now, the LANRover brings in good sound, is simple, easy to setup, etc. I like it well enough.
Sometimes I feel like a Luddite, but I do like to keep things as simple as possible.
Sometimes we all feel like Luddites! Me too!
[Whoops!! My 'Thanks" were intended for the previous post.]
I currently have the DS with Bridge II. I want to use a mac mini to power it through JRiver. My question is: How tricked out does the mini need to be given that the Bridge is input agnostic. Do I need any specific processor speed, RAM, etc? Also, does it matter if I use an SSD or regular hard drive and does it matter if it’s internal or external? Finally, is there any sonic advantage to be had with upgrades such as the Mojo power supplies?
Thanks.
I tricked out my Mini with external power supplies only to go back to the stock supply because, frankly, it was better. RAM matters, get lots of it, as much as you can. The Bridge II will not care as much as USB input, properly done will, but I’d still focus on RAM and go for the faster speed processor too.