Crossover Tweaking

Yeah, I just looked up the prices too, that is more than I spent last month on the food budget, and more than the Pavanes cost me. Per capacitor. I have to keep it real around here :wink: the write-ups on those posh caps do look good though!

Nice preamp :slight_smile:

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The Bruce Moore is the best preamp I heard under $4k. Only thing it doesn’t have balance inputs. If you want better, the BHK pre should easily outperform it.
I change the caps in my speakers from the originals to VCaps also and the difference is HUGE!!! These are some nice caps indeed.

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KEF 105/3 Crossover :frowning_face:


KEF 104/2 Crossover :frowning_face:

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I understand the need for higher quality Caps in the signal path be it Preamp or Amp but in the Speaker Crossover, it can get VERY expensive depending on the complexity.

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Yikes - That can add up quickly.

Oh, forgot to share - I saw this as well in case you don’t have it as reference -

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachments/multi-way/783503d1569417110-kef-105-3-crossover-reference-105-3_201503201532-1107-pdf

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Not only the caps, the resisters and inductors made a huge difference since they are in the signal path also. When I change the wire wound resisters to the Duelund Silver Graphite resisters in the tweeters, you can hear the highs ring with so much body and air, it’s startling. You’ll be surprise how many hi end speakers use such crappy parts in their crossovers.

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Those crossovers are extreme. It could be cheaper to get a DCX and more amps - you know you want to, you’re half way there with the mini-DSPs anyway :slight_smile:

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Sadly, I am not surprised, just disappointed.
I don’t mind non-“boutique”, but some really are naff (i.e. far below the price and quality-point of the drivers).

VERY expensive, yes. But, VERY worth it if done right. I have rolled a lot of capacitors in both amps and speakers. In my experience, the Miflex capacitors offer the best SQ:Value ratio. Not cheap by any stretch, but also not Duelund expensive! My top three brands are Duelund, Miflex, and Jupiter. Vcap is a close 4th. Though I do use Vcaps in my Canary Grand Reference monos. Just depends on the application.

I completely rebuilt the crossovers in my Tannoy Westminster speakers. I used Miflex capacitors, Mundorf inductors and Duelund resistors. Worth every cent I spent.

Here is an amusing comparison of old vs. new on one particular component.

So, here is the original low frequency crossover. That yellow capacitor is maybe 2" in length.

And here is the new Miflex cap that replaced it!

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I completely agree. I replaced all of the resisters with Duelund Silver Graphite and the inductors with Mundorf copper foil… Zero regrets. This high and low frequency crossover rebuild was one of the most dramatic improvements in my system. Parts aren’t just parts when it comes to speaker crossovers. In my experience, the more you invest in quality components, you greater the sound quality reward.

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Holy cow.

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My first real Homebrews had Solo Copper Foil Inductors in the Tweeter and Midrange Crossovers. Fresh out of College and living at home is why I could afford to. The KEF’s Inductors would cost me a small Fortune to replace with Copper Foil and “perfect lay” type air core wirewound Inductors.

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Using old KEF Magazine reviews, I found the measured KUBE curves for the 104/2’s and the 105/3’s. The Cavity Coupled Woofers have the curve inline with the Crossover as opposed to bypassing the Woofer X-Over altogether (which worked fine)

I would love to rip out all those X-Over’s and just go miniDSP with an inline BOSC amp feeding each set of drivers. These GaN Amps run absolutely cool. I could mount both the miniDSP boards and the BOSC Amps inside the bottom of the Cabinets (where the X-ver’s are now. I could probably cram the recommended power supply (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Murata-Power-Solutions/PQU650-54?qs=BJlw7L4Cy79D6Ol1v2EeAA%3D%3D) into the base as well.

https://orchardaudio.com/shop/ols/products/bosc-amplifier-module/v/BSC-MPL-MDL

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Capacitors that size are crying out for an external crossover enclosure!
Would be great to play in those rarefied level of components, alas some of us are of rather more modest means (I know this is a “high-end” site allegedly, but still).

So it’s Solen or the basic clarity cap, falcon’s wirewound inductors, and saving up to buy these :slight_smile:

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Can someone please give any kind of comment on how “well designed” these aftermarket crossovers for my '78 USSR speakers are?
(RET Estonia 35AC-021, but I doubt anyone’s heard of them)
I know, might be hard to say, but I’ll provide all the info and pics I can.

8ohms
35-50W recommended, 100W power handling
25Hz-30kHz (kinda…)
Double front ported
6.5" aluminium sandwich flat woofer
2" stiffened textile mid dome
~1/2" silk dome (?) tweeter
Internal volume ~1.55 cubic feet

New crossover diagram:

New crossover built:

Old crossover diagram (blurry, was hard to find):

Old crossover:

Obviously the new ones are built with modern mid-to-high quality parts like PP caps, etc. Audyn caps if that says anything. Very nice Black Rhodium cabling. (I asked for quality parts so I guess they are. Weren’t cheap)

Based on all this, what can I expect in improvements? Haven’t installed them yet. The design was by a Russian guy who actually was pretty devoted and even posted measurements, and they’re much simpler circuits, so I guess much better?

Oh, and aren’t they pretty?

The new one looks like a simpler design (and of similar order) so possibly less tailored to the specific drive units, they look like decent parts though and there is a zobel NW on the bass which suggests the equivalent inductance of the bass unit is known, how do they sound?
They look like pretty cool retro design on the outside :slight_smile:

Hello Joma0711,

I’m doing a XO upgrade myself, I was wondering, what are those soldering terminals called on your new XOs and how do they attach to the perforated board?

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I removed them from some tag strip with pliers, and drilled out some of the holes around the edges of the board so the terminals from the tag strip would fit through them, then re-bent the back of the terminals so they stayed put :slight_smile:

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