Lonely Raven said
Yeah, that's what I thought as well, so I had to jump at the chance of owning them.
Bob Ziegler who designed and built them is a master of veneer. The insides are supposed to be a complex set of chambers - and at the top is a hand made radial speaker that emanates sound 360 degrees.
If these don’t get me a more 3d holographic sound with the DirectStream DAC and Decware Mystery Amp, I’m really going to have to completely reevaluate my room as I can’t blame equipment at that point. LOL
master of veneer - check the process out that http://theophanyloudspeakers.com/ uses - Garth bends the wood making side walls not equal I’ve seen him use similar looking wood, wood is indeed beautiful to the eye very nice speakers
Elk said
It makes sense you need a tad bit higher preamp setting; the DS at 100 is equivalent to the PWD at 95.
Congrats, BTW, on your promotion to Forum Leader.
I haven’t been able to listen since Saturday with the myriad family matters I’ve been dealing with. However…
I now have the Oppo set to output from the coax via Bitstream so I think I’ll have a more valid A-B comparison. I’m also dropping the Bryston from my tests. The sound of tubes is too intoxicating to let go. I’ll just put up with the heat.
I’m not doing files yet, I just want discs. I’m selecting five discs I know well. What has surprised me more than anything with the DS DAC is that bad discs sound REALLY bad. An example: The Shostakovich 8th Symphony with Previn and the LSO on EMI has been an LP reference of mine for years and years. I know that record inside out. I bought the CD version and, well, it sucks. And it sucks even more through the DS DAC. It’s like the DS DAC is telling you, straight out without any BS, “hey this is one lousy remastering.”
It’s very unforgiving. Which may or may not be a good thing…
(P.S., I still can’t get the BitPerfect test to work.)
George Moneo said: It's very unforgiving. Which may or may not be a good thing...
I don't think I'm the only one to disagree here... I find the opposite. The DS in my system is much more forgiving of my traditional torture tracks. Previously piercing, unpleasantly distorted highs are much smoother and revealing on the DS. In fact the resolution of hidden detail and airiness often hidden in these areas is a defining feature of the DS, IMO.
Elk said: I like the DS' directness, but occasionally a little sweetening would be nice for those dreadful sounding recordings I otherwise enjoy.
In regards to sweetness, that is why a tube preamp is in my system. I prefer the DAC to be neutral if possible.
I have it listed in my signature: Coincident Statement Linestage. Unusual for its use of WE 101D tubes and twin TVCs. I have upgraded to the PSvane 1:1 replica 101D tubes. It compares well to the ARC ref 5se, although, I feel it does lack a bit of bass against the ref 5se. It is however more airy and gives more life to the music. The ref 5se sounds a bit bland and dry in comparison.
The magic is happening . . . I have about 70-80 hours on my DS now. Last night I played some test tracks I had played shortly after installing the DS. Soundstage and separation of instruments noticeably better; slight harshness on female vocals gone. This is in line with what others have noticed. Instrumental timbre has been spectacular almost from the start.
Had a friend over this morning. He didn’t know much at all about the DS before coming (he had not read any reviews). His first reaction was that the CDs he brought sounded so much better. Way to go Ted and Paul!
My system sounds much more lifelike and involving than I could have imagined 20 years ago. So a thanks not only to Paul and Ted, but to all the designers and companies that have contributed to it. And my own efforts at putting the thing together without breaking the bank. It’s good for us compulsive audiophile types to stop sometimes and just enjoy the music without thinking about the next upgrade.
George Moneo said
I now have the Oppo set to output from the coax via Bitstream so I think I'll have a more valid A-B comparison. I'm also dropping the Bryston from my tests. The sound of tubes is too intoxicating to let go. I'll just put up with the heat.
I’m not doing files yet, I just want discs. I’m selecting five discs I know well. What has surprised me more than anything with the DS DAC is that bad discs sound REALLY bad. An example: The Shostakovich 8th Symphony with Previn and the LSO on EMI has been an LP reference of mine for years and years. I know that record inside out. I bought the CD version and, well, it sucks. And it sucks even more through the DS DAC. It’s like the DS DAC is telling you, straight out without any BS, “hey this is one lousy remastering.”
It’s very unforgiving. Which may or may not be a good thing…
(P.S., I still can’t get the BitPerfect test to work.)
Until the bit perfect test passes you have something in the system manipulating the bits and perhaps the sound. It could be as benign as a simple volume change but it could also be some DSP functions manipulating the frequency response…
George Moneo said
stevem2 said
George, I have Max Bit Depth set to Automatic. If it is padding the files to 32 bits that might prevent you from passing the bit perfect test. I do not have dCS DoP checked (not sure but don't think it's supported).
Changed the setting. Unchecked dCS DoP.
Now I’m getting 16/96 on the display and a crapload of pops. Still no message on the DS screen.
The 96/16 indicates that something is throwing away the low bits of each sample - I'm not a MAC user but I know that people can get Bit Perfect (the software) to play the bit perfect test files correctly, I just don't know how :) Hopefully some Bit Perfect user can help.
Had a great listening session with the DirectStream and some friends tonight. My Oppo sounded great Oppo BDP-105 -> Decware Mystery Amp -> Decware MG944 Speakers, all powered by the P10, but then the DirectStream was a jump to light-speed when we had good recordings. Played the Steve Hoffman remix of Who’s Next - that’s an old mix, and the DS showed the album’s age; only minimal improvement on the DS from the Oppo.(!) But then played Steve Wilson mix of ELP’s Lucky Man and it was HUGE sounding and simply beautiful. Played CSN Helplessly Hoping and Waylin’ Jenny’s -Summertime and everyone caught how the DS separated the individual voices in the harmonies. Wonderful emotion on Summertime as well. Did SRV Tin Pan Alley, HUGE, and the ride cymbal made everyone’s ears perk up. Played Here Comes The Sun off Abbey Road (not sure which pressing of the CD) and it was amazing; recording quality/skills well beyond it’s age. Then I made everyone start toe tapping by playing a 24/96 of Michael Jackson’s Billie Jean of the Thriller album - we were all blown away by how good this recording was for a pop song from the early 80’s! Everything we played tonight just sounded huge, detailed, and filled the room. Got some nice comments on the tightness of the bass here and there. We were all surprised (though I shouldn’t be) that my amp was at 100 and the DS was at 95 for most of the night - with speakers that are 93db 1w/1m. I don’t know if it’s the added clarity/neutrality of the DS, but you want to turn it up more, and it doesn’t sound strained, nor to I feel like I have listening fatigue after…4 hours of demoing and enjoying music!
Just so much music and discussion (helping a new guy describe what he was listening to - teaching him how to “listen”). I was impressed when the new guy caught the use of a noise-gate effect on the vocals of one track (CD he brought - I don’t recall what). He didn’t even know what the effect was, but described it as if someone was turning on and off the microphone just as the vocalist started and stopped singing. He could even hear the ramp up of the noise-gate on the vocals - we had that much detail, all without being harsh or etched.
So at the end of the night, as a review, I asked him to tell me what he heard overall tonight. He came up with this great description of the Oppo when directly compared to the DS. He said the Oppo had great detail, but it was like running a photo through a sharpening filter in Photoshop - yeah you have great detail, but at the expense of hard edges. I’d say he’s on the right track, because that sounds like the dryness or etching myself and others have heard with the Oppo. Great description he came up with honestly. And the DS just simply doesn’t have any of that. What the DS also doesn’t have (we all agreed), is that it isn’t rounding off the music (the opposite of sharpening or etching). I remember the early days of DACs, many of them felt like they rounded off the edges to make CDs more tolerable. Nope, the DS is simply detailed and honest - a great match for the Mystery Amp.
I’m exhausted and rambling at this point - just wanted to share my experience while it was still fresh in my head. I guess this is no longer my “first impressions” but, you know.
Contact Richard at Bit Perfect. He has a DirectStream, a Mac, and - of course - Bit Perfect working perfectly. He’s very knowledgable and very helpful. He can get you straightened out quickly. Please let us know what you find is wrong.
What a wonderful experience and your description made me wish that I had been there too. I think we are on the right track when we drop most of the A’philes superlatives and the comments shift to the music and the effects that it had on us. FUN!
now, let us all bow our heads for a moment of compassion for the rest of the world who are still listening to “equipment” SQ while we get to “enjoy the music”.
I’m still reeling from last night - it was a great session. I’m pretty sure the new guy is going down the path of tube power amps to go with his older B&W speakers as a first step into a much bigger (and more expensive) musical world.
I’m going to be out of town for a couple days, and I probably need a break from music to re-calibrate my ears/head after last night. The DS does so much right. Again, awesome work Ted, Paul, and crew!
I’m not computer savvy that much, so plz don’t laugh at my question below…
I use window 7 eLyric/jRiver stream to DS bridge hardwired, does the Bit Perfect test apply to my situation? If so how I can do it?
Yes. Don’t get confused between the bit perfect test, which is a file you download from the PSA downloads section, and Bit Perfect the program, which is just for Macs running iTunes. The bit perfect test file is played like any other music file (but turn the sound off or way down–there is no music). Add it to your JRiver library and play it. If it works, your DS will briefly display “bit perfect passed” (or something like that) in the top left of the display.
Lonely Raven said
I'm still reeling from last night - it was a great session. I'm pretty sure the new guy is going down the path of tube power amps to go with his older B&W speakers as a first step into a much bigger (and more expensive) musical world. :) I'm going to be out of town for a couple days, and I probably need a break from music to re-calibrate my ears/head after last night. The DS does so much *right*. Again, awesome work Ted, Paul, and crew!
Lonely Raven said
Then I made everyone start toe tapping by playing a 24/96 of Michael Jackson's Billie Jean of the Thriller album - we were all blown away by how good this recording was for a pop song from the early 80's!
Michael Jackson was very involved in his recordings and a perfectionist. He demanded, and got, spectacular sound quality.
He also required his stage shows to sound like the albums. And all stage sound equipment was duplicated. If a keyboard, sound module, anything failed - a replacement was quickly switched on line.
For me the configuration with win8.1 and Jriver 96k Bit perfect test file need to be
Jriver
Tools/options/Bitstreaming set condition to : Yes
don’t use Tools/Settings/ DSP & output/DSP Studio/output format/ Output encoding : DSD in DoP format (requires DSD capable DAC)
using DSP studio the Bit perfect test fails.
do not use DSP studio. Set Bitstreaming to Yes is all that is required in Jriver. My setup works on both Bridge and USB in this configuration Bit perfect test good.
Sound is heard using DSP studio but does not pass the 96K bit perfect test.
I am very keen to try the 192K bit perfect test file how can I get my hands on that. Can anyone help
Lonely Raven said
Then I made everyone start toe tapping by playing a 24/96 of Michael Jackson's Billie Jean of the Thriller album - we were all blown away by how good this recording was for a pop song from the early 80's!
Michael Jackson was very involved in his recordings and a perfectionist. He demanded, and got, spectacular sound quality.
He also required his stage shows to sound like the albums. And all stage sound equipment was duplicated. If a keyboard, sound module, anything failed - a replacement was quickly switched on line.
From the album History:
'SPECIAL THANKS FOR TECHNICAL SUPPORT TO :
ELECTROCOMPANIET AS : PER ABRAHAMSEN, TROND BRAATEN AND NILS B. KVAM.’
Bruce Swedien used their AW180 class A amps for the majority of his albums.
