It would clearly be a competitive advantage if the DMP could support RAAT for use with Roon if this does not cannibalize the BII hosted by the DS. I also hope the Ethernet port is not limited to firmware updates and album art download. Actually I had a hope for using a control point with the DMP.
pmotz said While I have no idea what has been (or was) done, I bet their experiences with eLyric, Bridge II beta, ROON incorporation, and the LAN Rover make them wince at another software based product. Too many variables!This would be completely understandable. Unfortunately everything (except the BHK amps, I guess) has software nowadays. It's a real pain but no way around it.
the DS would require a significant upgrade to accept anything greater than the currently accepted double rate DSD.Yeah, I know that but forgot it in my enthusiasm when writing my last post. But an external Bridge might be used with non-PSA DACS that accept I2S data over HDMI, following the spec that PSA developed.
palerider saidJumbuck said Just to clarify, using the ethernet port on the DMP negates the need for a Bridge in the DSD for Roon etc?You mean, use the Ethernet port on the DMP, paying through the DS, as an endpoint for Roon-managed network playback? Well, that is indeed an interesting thought. It had not occurred to me. And if Paul is correct that the output of the DMP into the DS is superior to that of the Bridge, then it is very intriguing. DMP=Bridge III? Hmmm.
That won’t work. The Ethernet port on the DMP only connects to our servers for cover art. It won’t do anything else.
Paul McGowan saidpalerider saidJumbuck said Just to clarify, using the ethernet port on the DMP negates the need for a Bridge in the DSD for Roon etc?You mean, use the Ethernet port on the DMP, paying through the DS, as an endpoint for Roon-managed network playback? Well, that is indeed an interesting thought. It had not occurred to me. And if Paul is correct that the output of the DMP into the DS is superior to that of the Bridge, then it is very intriguing. DMP=Bridge III? Hmmm.
That won’t work. The Ethernet port on the DMP only connects to our servers for cover art. It won’t do anything else.
There’s our answer. And it makes sense. Paul, is there any other benefit to having the DMP on a network? Will firmware upgrades be accessible this way, or will that still be done with SD cards? [It’s my only real “complaint,” if you can call it such, for the DS.]
Updates will still be by SD card. And yes, the only advantage of internet connectivity is access to your personal library to edit or add cover art our servers don’t recognize, and to have cover art in the first place.
I know. It would be wonderful to have everything automatically updated over the internet.
We are working on just such a plan for future generations of PS products but, for now, this isn’t happening except by SD card.
Hi Paul. Just tossing my hat in the air letting you know that I’ll likely be hopping on the beta test wagon when it’s announced.
Paul McGowan said We are working on just such a plan for future generations of PS products but, for now, this isn't happening except by SD card.Is RAAT support also on your DMP roadmap?
Alternatively, you could incorporate USB and then owners can use the üRendu as a RAAT front end.
tony22 said Hi Paul. Just tossing my hat in the air letting you know that I'll likely be hopping on the beta test wagon when it's announced.This is quiet an image. :)
I, too, am excited to see the DMP.
tony22 said Hi Paul. Just tossing my hat in the air letting you know that I'll likely be hopping on the beta test wagon when it's announced.Thanks Tony!
Frode saidPaul McGowan said We are working on just such a plan for future generations of PS products but, for now, this isn't happening except by SD card.Is RAAT support also on your DMP roadmap?
Alternatively, you could incorporate USB and then owners can use the üRendu as a RAAT front end.
No, we’re keeping DMP as a pure source that does not stream.
Long term we are working on our own server platform and user interface. It’s a very long term project, one we are investing heavily in because we believe it’s the future of our industry. But it’s a tough slog through all the facets of meta data, user interface, sound quality, hardware, updates, etc. Biggest project we’ve yet tackled.
Paul McGowan said Thanks. It is indeed an intriguing product.The input from the USB is relatively basic, handling all formats the player handles too. It will not support gapless, and there is no external app to control it (though that would have been a great feature).
We recommend an album’s worth, perhaps a bit more. The tracks are listed on the front panel touch screen which can only display about 4 at a time before you have to scroll again, so too many tracks become cumbersome to manage.
But, once inside the player, the internal advanced Digital Lens takes over and it’s pure bliss!
Paul,
-
Is there a chance futur upgrades will bring an app to select (control) the files to play from the USB Stick ? This will indeed be a great feature and will expand this USB port usability.
-
Also, this same app could me be allow to select which track we want to play from a CD, like “play tracks 1, 3, 7 and 9 only” ?
anyway congrat for this new CD/SACD player.
It’s unlikely since the basic architecture inside DMP wasn’t designed for this. Maybe future models? Great idea.
Paul McGowan saidFrode saidPaul McGowan said We are working on just such a plan for future generations of PS products but, for now, this isn't happening except by SD card.Is RAAT support also on your DMP roadmap?
Alternatively, you could incorporate USB and then owners can use the üRendu as a RAAT front end.
No, we’re keeping DMP as a pure source that does not stream.
Long term we are working on our own server platform and user interface. It’s a very long term project, one we are investing heavily in because we believe it’s the future of our industry. But it’s a tough slog through all the facets of meta data, user interface, sound quality, hardware, updates, etc. Biggest project we’ve yet tackled.
Too cool. I admit I had hoped that perhaps DMP could be a “lens” for network Roon, but I get why not. I will definitely get a DMP so I can listen and compare to my SACD extracts over the network. But as you mentioned in your Post today Paul, I do not relish making space for discs again in my listening station. When I was a kid, I loved my LP album art. Heck, compared to 45 singles, an album was a full serving. But now, with about 18tb of music, and TIDAL, and Roon, it’s really tough to go back to single disc spinning for anything other than critical listening.
So, I am really encouraged to hear you describe this long term project.
Paul McGowan saidpalerider saidPaul McGowan saidpmotz said Interesting video, thanks for sharing Paul. I find it interesting that you think the DMP sounds better than the DS/Bridge II. As I recall the Bridge II has a digital lens of some sort, so assuming that is correct, then the use of a digital lens is not the sole reason for the improved sound. Perhaps a better implementation of the digital lens is? I bet you don't really know, but that's Ok, it leaves you with something more to do! Now, I'm just waiting for the terms of the beta test!I am not entirely surprised they don’t sound identical, but I am trying to figure out why the bit-perfect file delivered over Ethernet to the DS/Bridge, where once there, is subject to the prowess of the DS-FPGA, should sound inferior. I don’t perceive inferior power supply or computational process. So, if there is a difference, what is the “why”?
I don’t have the specific answer you’re likely looking for. Only speculation as to why.
They are entirely different systems. Imagine for a moment just the power supply issues. On the Bridge you’re sharing a power supply with DS. Moreover, when we send the Bridge data, it does a lot of crunching to prepare that data for proper form to its internal Lens before delivery through the I2S bus.
Now, compare that to DMP. Here we have a separate isolated power supply and number cruncher in its own chassis. Its output, also I2S, has been carefully engineered and sweated over to provide the highest degree of isolation and jitter reduction we know how to design. Then, and only then, it is delivery to DirectStream’s I2S input.
These are very different scenarios.
Very interesting … a couple of thoughts:
-
When comparing the SQ of the DMP with that of the Bridge did you have optical isolation in the last ethernet leg to the Bridge? I found this made a noticeable improvement. Without it I do not think you have a level playing field for comparisons.
-
Your SQ findings suggest that the Lens ‘box’ of 5 years ago should be resurrected, updated to include a better power supply, isolation and FPGA implementation of the Lens, with I2S output. N.B. the remote for the PWT and DS still includes Lens control buttons!
Keep up the leading-edge work Paul!
Paul McGowan saidOn a second thought, most DMP owners will probably own the DS also, so even if a DS does not come with a Bridge you might route the output of the üRendu directly to the DS USB input, bypassing the DMP in the signal loop - issue solved (in this case the DMP connects to the DS via I2s).Frode saidNo, we're keeping DMP as a pure source that does not stream.Paul McGowan said We are working on just such a plan for future generations of PS products but, for now, this isn't happening except by SD card.Is RAAT support also on your DMP roadmap?Alternatively, you could incorporate USB and then owners can use the üRendu as a RAAT front end.
Long term we are working on our own server platform and user interface. It’s a very long term project, one we are investing heavily in because we believe it’s the future of our industry. But it’s a tough slog through all the facets of meta data, user interface, sound quality, hardware, updates, etc. Biggest project we’ve yet tackled.
davidl, your sig line indicates that you are using the TP-Link for optical isolation. This product? Or something else? I am about to install a Mivera Superstream with their fiber connection switch ahead of my MSB Select, and I am considering ways to deliver similar isolation to my DS.davidl saidVery interesting .... a couple of thoughts:
When comparing the SQ of the DMP with that of the Bridge did you have optical isolation in the last ethernet leg to the Bridge? I found this made a noticeable improvement. Without it I do not think you have a level playing field for comparisons.
Your SQ findings suggest that the Lens ‘box’ of 5 years ago should be resurrected, updated to include a better power supply, isolation and FPGA implementation of the Lens, with I2S output. N.B. the remote for the PWT and DS still includes Lens control buttons!
Keep up the leading-edge work Paul!
UPDATE: Decided to add Cisco fiber transceivers to my Cisco switches at the main switch, and the switch that I can have feed the Mivera directly over fiber, and also helping to isolate the last Ethernet leg to the DS and the Totaldac.
Paul McGowan saidFrode said And if I am not much mistaken there will be a DMP world premiere next weekend at the Horten HiFi show in Norway?BTW: I am very happy to see that PS Audio now have a devoted distributor in Norway (Mala Audio) that really seem to promote PS Audio products the way they deserve it!
Frode
Thanks Frode! I hope they work out for us. They seem like awfully nice people.
Here is the first picture from the Horten HiFi show, exhibiting the DMP and full PS Audio setup:
Paul,– Is there a chance futur upgrades will bring an app to select (control) the files to play from the USB Stick ? This will indeed be a great feature and will expand this USB port usability.
– Also, this same app could me be allow to select which track we want to play from a CD, like “play tracks 1, 3, 7 and 9 only” ?
anyway congrat for this new CD/SACD player.
Paul McGowan said : It's unlikely since the basic architecture inside DMP wasn't designed for this. Maybe future models? Great idea.
So, is an iPAD app is not possible to manage the DirectStream Memory Player, … may be you could use the DirectStream Memory Player’s touch screen to make this track selection (to play from a CD for example only tracks 1, 3, 7 and 9 ) ? Like you already do for the USB stick ?
palerider saiddavidl saidVery interesting … a couple of thoughts:
When comparing the SQ of the DMP with that of the Bridge did you have optical isolation in the last ethernet leg to the Bridge? I found this made a noticeable improvement. Without it I do not think you have a level playing field for comparisons.
Your SQ findings suggest that the Lens ‘box’ of 5 years ago should be resurrected, updated to include a better power supply, isolation and FPGA implementation of the Lens, with I2S output. N.B. the remote for the PWT and DS still includes Lens control buttons!
Keep up the leading-edge work Paul!
davidl, your sig line indicates that you are using the TP-Link for optical isolation. This product? Or something else? I am about to install a Mivera Superstream with their fiber connection switch ahead of my MSB Select, and I am considering ways to deliver similar isolation to my DS.
UPDATE: Decided to add Cisco fiber transceivers to my Cisco switches at the main switch, and the switch that I can have feed the Mivera directly over fiber, and also helping to isolate the last Ethernet leg to the DS and the Totaldac.
For your info Palerider here’s schematic of my system with component parts identified:
Frode saidPaul McGowan saidFrode said And if I am not much mistaken there will be a DMP world premiere next weekend at the Horten HiFi show in Norway?BTW: I am very happy to see that PS Audio now have a devoted distributor in Norway (Mala Audio) that really seem to promote PS Audio products the way they deserve it!
Frode
Thanks Frode! I hope they work out for us. They seem like awfully nice people.
Here is the first picture from the Horten HiFi show, exhibiting the DMP and full PS Audio setup:
Frode saidPaul McGowan saidFrode said And if I am not much mistaken there will be a DMP world premiere next weekend at the Horten HiFi show in Norway?BTW: I am very happy to see that PS Audio now have a devoted distributor in Norway (Mala Audio) that really seem to promote PS Audio products the way they deserve it!
Frode
Thanks Frode! I hope they work out for us. They seem like awfully nice people.
Here is the first picture from the Horten HiFi show, exhibiting the DMP and full PS Audio setup:
Nice. Here’s another picture with the two owners in Norway. This is the world’s first demonstration of DMP and the note I just received was “awesome!” - so I suppose they know enough English to say that much.