One could also argue that any gear that produce ultrasonic noise outside audio band enough to cause problems with downstream gear is also poorly designed and not worthy of owning. - but I’m not doing that, so I don’t think it’s fair to simply point the finger at other manufacturers.
Do you have plot of the noise across the frequency band, -30dB is pretty high! is this just 14khz or generally across the band and peaked at 14khz?
Yes. We ran the exact test for both the MK1 and MK2. This was band limited from 400hz to 15khz. Pretty narrow tho we also did a 20hz - 20khz limit also with the same results. Both units have our nickel transformers. We also did measurements with the Edcor’s which had the same noise figures. Transformers have no effect on noise floor.
To me the message has to be clear and simple to follow. I am not stupid man, but I am not an EE. I get numbers and how they are “supposed” to look, but much of this is our of my wheelhouse for use. I see these are big, but its ok. Very confusing. What ever it is if PSA decides to publish (and I think they should) it should cover the why and why nots and if this is done it will show this because of that … etc… There will be questions and concerns that will kill sales. Which is really not my business but I wish them well and want many updates to come for many years for this DAC.
I wonder if previous FPGA versions had the same exact noise?
I have never seen measurements of the old firmware’s however I think Ted can do his magic on this if PSA feels it’s a problem.
Your key words “enough to cause a problem” this noise is not enough to cause any issues with any stable design amplifier. Ultrasonic noise is present in our environment. Morose over this measurement nonsense and I will enjoy the music without issue. Any Amplifier that becomes unstable with the slightest noise is not the fault of the source it is the fault of poor design.
The end user doesn’t need to know or even care about these magical measurements. They do not affect the quality of the playback experience and only cloud the waters with nothing meaningful.
Those unwarranted concerns are precisely why fewer and fewer manufacturers publish that data.
It is simply not a “need to know” thing.
With that said I will bow out of the conversation.
One would think that. And most here on this forum and few others feel the same. The issue is elsewhere its gospel. if it measures bad its bad. Period. snakeoil etc. We have all read those sites. Now in the end is this my issue? no not at all. But we all know the people (not personally) from this forum and feel for them being represented not in the best light.
Are you saying YOU don’t care or everyone else? I along with most would like to know what I am spending good money for. The measurements are not magical, They are factual.
Not true. Most all manufactures post the specification of their products. This has been true since HiFi first started. PSA post some of the specifications however they left out the noise floor. (the issue here)
I bet most here would like to know especially since now there are not many HiFi shops and must purchase products online.
If we’re going to access what “most” of us feel about measurements, I’m with @baldy. If it sounds great. . . that’s what counts for me.
Measurements are important and can be used as a baseline, however I agree the sound is the most important part. Some measurements are more important than others. (frequency response for example) The engineers use measurements when designing the products and go back and forth between listening sessions and re-design, measure…repeat. I also agree that the noise floor measurements talked about here do not correspond to what we hear. (the ultrasonic bat noise effecting this measurement) It is yet to be known if this could harm other equipment.
Yep… I have heard of horror stories of customers running NOS DAC’s with no filter or incorrectly set filters raving about how good it sounds then about a week later are crying about blowing up their $1000 tweeters.
Well I do research for a product if nor scouring measurements. In the case of the Mk2 beta testers, modders and early owners had no such difficulties over months and I trusted their experience. In this case these measurements are just invisible to me–the device works and sounds great.
I hope you are correct.
JK, What is the status of the unit when you measured the noise floor in each unit? Is the unit simply on and this the noise that the components in the unit produce at its output connectors? Or is the unit processing some kind of test signal? I am just trying to understand the measurement, I am nor being critical of anything that you have reported here.
jk, Can your AP gear measure the noise floor at 300 kHz?
We did several test. With no signal, With a silent 0dB digital signal, with the digital signal muted. When we mute the unit the noise goes down.
Thanks, this helps my understanding.
If this really high frequency noise were to affect my amplifiers it would have. It’s a safe product for me to use. I’m not going go into gloom and doom mode.