Does P10 need break in? If so how long?


#1

Hi,

I took advantage of some of the sales going on for new P10 given the new version is around the corner and picked up one over the weekend.

I’ve been using a BPT RM-20 as conditioner for my setup for the past couple of years. My set up comprise of DS DMP -> DSD -> Allnic L3000 MKII -> deqx deqmate-> (2x) magtech amp (bi amp setup) -> Sandersound B10.

The sandersound magtech amp is one of the few amps that has a linear power regulation, so I’ve only plug everything up stream of that to the RM20 and now plugging these source equipment to the new P10.

The RM20 solve some bad ground problems I had in my music room that plague my system with high noise floor and audible ground hum. Was glad when the RM 20 took care of that without affecting dynamics. However, I noticed over the years, I always enjoy the music more late at nights when the neighborhood is asleep (I live in NJ in a town of ~100K people). So I suspected I need power regulation in addition to power conditioning and I’ve been studying the P10 for a while.

I’m hoping that with cleaner power, I can obtain the clean captivating sound that kept me up many late nights listening, but without having to stay up to 2-3am to experience it. The two magtech amps is rated at 900W at 4ohms each, so I didn’t think the P10 can handle that without constraining the sound. So I only put the 4 frontend components, (transport, dac, pre and DEQX) on the p10, the full load of the four components is only 120W max as all of them had a max load of 30W each and the display on the p10 show ~ 92W when the system is play9ing music. So I believe the P10 should not e stressed at all.

My first impression within the first hour of swapping out the RM20 with the p10 is my hopes for clean captivating sound has been achieved. I was able to hear that familiar details, fleshy sound with the dark background right away, so very happy with the swap. As I listen on, I started to notice the bass seem to have loss some snap/slam with the P10. This surprise me as couldn’t imagine the source component were in any way power constraint given just 120w load in total and the p10 was drawing less than 1 amp at 92 watts.

So it’s puzzling how the treble and mids had such a noticeable immediate improvement, but the bass actually seem to have loss something. So trying to figure out if there is some break in require.

I should also point out that I had to use the stock power cord for the P10 as the upgraded power cord for the p10 uses a 20amp plug and didn’t fit the P10. I am expecting a better power cord to come in couple of wks for the p10.

just trying to figure out how best to optimize my setup with the P10, any tips would be appreciated :slight_smile:

Gerald


#2

I just did the same, purchased a nearly new P10 for a good price, awaiting delivery this week. I’ve read Paul says the P10 needs a solid 7 days to burn-in. I would expect more load/heat would speed up the process too…I bet the bass returns soon, and with improvements. I’ve noticed the bass being most improved, starting out lacking, by PS components as they accumulated hours.


#3

I would expect the bass to improve. I would also suggest giving the amps a try with the P10. They almost certainly draw only a fraction of their nominal power at any reasonable listening level. One of the biggest benefits of the Power Plants is reduced impedance–they can produce more instantaneous power than the wall outlet, which can greatly benefit bass.


#4

Yes, it should sound good out of the box but really blossoms after about a week. You want to make sure the unit stays powered at all times and that you pay attention to the quality of the power cords - the one feeding the P10 as well as those feeding equipment.


#5

Thank you gents for clarifying the break in period. Thanks for chiming in too Paul.

I’m keeping the source equipment and the p10 on; not playing music on it just having things on. Look forward to the new power cable as well to give the P10 a fitting cable.


#6

Steven, I like to test out whether the p10 can drive my whole system… Including my 2 power hungry magtech amps. Challenge is my amps by my speakers and my source equipment is by my listening position 20’+ away. I set up like this for two reasons, one is my electrostatic speakers see capacitive loads and very hard to find good eyes for it, do I try to keep then short as possible…22" short.

Moving my source system next to me shoes me to change CD without getting up and minimizes sound vibrations on the force equipment. I’ll have to find done long cheap power cable to test out of the p10 can handle the load first. If it can then I’ll make the investment in better cable… But won’t be cheap. May have to consider buying a p3 just to run the source gears and leave the p10 in the front of the room for the amps. That may be the most cost effective way to get the snow on the p10.


#7

sorry for all the typos folks…posting from my phone with swipe program and its word complete utility sucks as you can see…


#8

That setup does make it hard to use the P10 for everything. Still, a little experimentation along the lines you suggest would seem worthwhile. Let us know what happens.


#9

Steven,

You were right, I just ran a bunch of extension cables from my garage to connect my 2 magtech amps to the P10 last night and played a bunch of songs at moderately loud volumes. The load I had on the P10 prior to adding the 2 amps and my Sandersound electrostat speakers was between 92-120W load and ~ 1amp.

With the 2 900W@4ohm magtech amp, started to see between 270W & 2.8amps - 480W & 4amp load. I notice couple of times the % load went about 50% but never saw it above 55%. Maybe it’s just my electrostat speakers, but the load only spikes up when loud bass was playing, even with loud mid+treble, it tends to be just 27-30% loaded when there is no loud bass.

So very glad about the test, although things didn’t sound so great with all the powerstrips and extension cords in the mix. I spent the next couple of hours moving gear and swapping power cables to have the P10 and other gear “mostly” power by decent cables…still need 2 extra cable, but the sound immediately sound much much better.

Lesson there is don’t power your audio gear with homedepot 50’ extension cords…


#10

That’s great! Home Depot will be disappointed, however.


#11

I too have my gear split between two rooms with a wall between them. P10 and DAC on one side with preamp and amps on the other. I’ve found making my own ‘extension’ cable was the best affordable solution. I’ve used a couple of old, circa 2001, Chris VanHaus designs https://www.venhaus1.com/diymains.html namely the star quad using THHN 12awg Flavor 4 https://www.vhaudio.com/flavor4.html works very well to convey ~20’. 2x12awg is equivalent to 9awg.

Would it sound ‘better’ with more expensive wire/cable, perhaps but it would be a pricey beast to have custom made.


#12

I like the fact you have a walk between your components…I thought something something similar if I can steal dinner closet space from my bedroom… But no go for now.

I have notice that the p10 with the large enclosure is sensitive to Sonic vibrations. Do I’m wondering if anyone has dealt with Sonic vibrations to their equipment beyond get and spikes as those trend to just deal with vibration from the floor and stands…


#13

I receive my P10 tomorrow, in preparation I built a shelf, err stand, for it in the closet that also houses a half 19" AV rack (DS, Apple TV, Kodi PC, Sony Bluray). It’s supported by the walls on 3 sides, made of MDF, and I have a Ikea bamboo butcher block to serve as a base along with 4 hemisphere sorbothane domes. This should effectively attenuate most vibrations. I’ve read people judge the sorbathane rather harshly, muddy bass. Perhaps as I get my system more refined I’ll try the rubber/cork blocks to see if I can tell a difference. I think much of this level of tweaking is lost on my old, somewhat abused, ears. I’m having too much fun getting lost in the music to fuss with the last 1% level of tweaks.

I’ll take a photo once it’s in place if you like.


#14

I had an extended listening session after the P10 been up for couple of days and I can confirm the the bass has returned :smile:

I can’t tell if the bass is an improvement over my RM20, but it at least matches it; and the bass was pretty good with 900W magtechs driving 600W woofers. I know I haven’t even reach the min break in period for the P10, but even if doesn’t move up any further, I’m already a very happy camper :star_struck:

I also like your solution for vibration control and would be great to see what it looks like when you get the setup done.

I should build some enclosure for the P10 and my other source gear. they are just on stands right now that deals with vibrations from the floor. I like to shield it as much as I can, but concern about how much room to leave for heat as I have an Allnic L3000 MKII for my pre.

I was also blown away by switching out a speaker cable last night, I have very short runs of speaker cables (22") from my amp to speaker, so I thought I wouldn’t have to invest so much in that since it’s a short run. last night swap out my air tube silver speaker cables with a pair of audioquest CV 4.2 which are not high end cables, but more low to mid tier cables. There was some lost in the airiness of the music, but the sound stage and fleshiness of the voices/tone was a clear improvement.

So it seems like my thin silver air tube speaker cables probably was having some current limiting affect on my speakers(which I had suspicions of in the past) , and the change to audioquest just relieve that problem and allow things to come through fuller. I’m pretty sure the improvement I heard was so much the speaker cable, but the combo of DMP and P10 which had been added to my system since I first put in the thin silver cables.

Now I’m exploring further upgrade of the speaker cable to hopefully retrieve the airiness and reverb that was loss while maintaining the improvements the audioquest brought. My speakers are Sandersound electrostats, so need cables that have very low capacitance and inductance… suggestions would be welcome!


#15

She’s landed. The shelf is on a simple ledger on 3 sides that ride on top of the base boards that float just above the wood floor. The walls are 1952 concrete plaster. The ledgers are anchored into the walls using toggle bolts, bamboo (Ikea) cutting board fits like it was made for the P10, sits on sorbothane hemispheres size and durometer for the weight they bear.

Immediate but subtle improvement. I have a number of power cables to still make but for now BHK pre and M700 share a single 12awg extension feeding dual duplex outlets. Soon they will all have their own dedicated 9awg from the P10.


#16

Nicely done. It looks well tucked in for many happy years of operation.


#17

Thanks, I think so. A couple hours to warm-up and it’s improved the sound nicely.


#18

One thing to add on what Paul indicated is consideration towards using mechanical grounding of some sort, I use Stillpoints UktraSS with base sitting on HRS M3X platforms - this finishes things up, of course after an upgraded power cable :nerd_face:


#19

Brett, I really like how you isolated your P10 I can definitely do the same if I extend 1/2 dozen power cable by 6’ or find a way to house my source equipment with the p10 my next store bed room closet.

I noticed you build some of your own power cables, I’ve been doing the same but I’ve been using mostly gotham audio cables as raw material.

http://www.gothamaudiousa.com/

85025 GPC 3x2.5mm AC Power Cable PVC Marine Blue 100 m/328 ft. 3.15
85055 GPC 3x5.5mm AC Power Cable PVC Marine Blue 100 m/328 ft. 6.23

I use the lighter gauge cable for source equipment and the heavier cable for power cable. @ $3 & $6 dollar per foot, price was really hard to beat. I like their cable because their braid shielding is very nicely done, the $6 cable has double braid shield and foil wrap with drain wire. When I try to find equivalent in belden and other cables, the price was like 3X but for less.

I never compare these with belden cables cause I didn’t have the latter, but I did compare them with audio art and furutech power cables. I couldn’t say which was better with my ears/system, but there was nothing objectionable with the gotham cables vs the others, so I’ve been using them since.


#20

here’s some spec info on the 85055 GPC cable from gotham that I use to build my cable for my amps…

http://www.gothamaudiousa.com/productdata/85055.pdf

if anyone knows of better cable than this at these prices, please let me know.