With all the Windom chatter about good loads bad loads and such . I decided to try Bubble Upnp app on my Android pad and see how it worked and compared to Mconnect. I was amazed at the sound difference. Im not sure how it happens, but My take is each use their own ways to load Qobuz or tidal. On my comparison using Ipad with Mconnect and LG pad for Bubble upnp I went head to head listening to the same track going back and forth and its much different sounding with each having distinct traits that are very decernable.
I wonder if some of the so called bad loads have anything to do with the users choice of Roon m Jriver , Mconnect , Bubble, …
By the way Im not sure yet what one I like better . Bubble seems more LP like with wider stage and softer rolled bass with a deeper center vocal . Mconnect has more 3d aura with nuances front behind and around the speakers with more forward chesty center vocals.
I have yet to try Roon and am not ruling anything out! ANY thoughts from any one who has compared Bubble to Mconnect ?
Tried both some time ago but I was so disenchanted with the Connect GUI when compared with BubbleUPnP GUI that I didn’t get as far as comparing sound quality.
The use of BubbleUPnP (my favorite), mControlHD, LUMIN and 8player Pro doesn’t result in any difference in sound in my setup (Melco N1ZS10 -> Matrix x-spdif 2/Uptone lps 1.2 -> DSsr -> ARC ref 6 -> ARC 75 SE -> ML Spires / Rel Stadium II, Power Plant P10 / quality cabling throughout).
IMO it’s quite impossible that different control-points in one and the same system/setup give differences in sound (directing the same stream straight from the internet/router or network-player into the DAC).
Before comparison be sure to use identical volume, levels of subscription in the control-points (tidal hifi/qobuz HiRes) and identical DS input (usb, hdmi, Bridge) an don’t mess with mqa (which only completely unfolds using mControl->BridgeII).
Though i do hear differences comparing local -Melco- stored files (best), Qobuz (almost identical) and Tidal (often a bit less) and Windom made them even more apparent…
Knowing my 40 years into listening and my system well. I had to enlist a non AUDIOPHILE bi partisan to confirm. I had my girl who could not tell a Krell from a Pioneer . I asked her to identify what she liked . We both blind picked the Bubble easily. I know it sounds weird but these are apps that use data to drop the Qobuz and Tidal to you with differing ways ! . I am streaming ETHERNET into DSD Bridge 2 with Krell FPB 400CX into a KRC3 pre . out to WATT 6 . I changed nothing just my remote from the I pad IOS Mconnect to the Android pad with Bubble
Bubble is much better . Like I said I wonder if these apps are causing the false bad loads. I loved Windom from day one but this is icing on the cake
Mconnect is not the best control app as it freezes up and has its issues. Bubble does too but so does JRiver and Roon
You have to remember that when streaming Qobuz and Tidal, the app is not merely a control point. It is actually creating a streaming server, to do a job like the minimserver does. And so it acts as server and control point at the same time.
So, SQ differences are theoretically possible, be due to the server implementation, or due to hardware differences. Although they should be very nuanced, because the server should be delivering bit perfect to the renderer.
In comparing both, one should not only level match (as you said), but make sure that neither bubble or mco next is doing any kind of transcoding, and maintaining but perfect (bubble is capable of transcoding the stream).
All control points i use(d) deliver bit perfect. In Bubble one can change the ‘local renderer’ settings (recode, resample, convert 24->16bit) but with the DS/Bridge in use as renderer that’ll have no influence at all.
Selecting ‘individual UPnP/DLNA renderers’ in my case shows the Melco/Matrix combination which only offers FFmpeg audio decoding as selectable (basic functionality of minimserver, installed on the Melco).
With an extern renderer in use the signal even doesn’t pass through the tablet/phone (just turn of your tablet while playing music with Bubble;-) so hardware differences are excluded.
FWIW…Although with the exception of differences is sound compared to other control points i fully agree. Bubble offers way better GUI, is rocksolid (never ever freezes up over here) and one search query simultaneously delivers all hits in both Tidal and Qobuz.
Using the basic Android share functionality Bubble in addition offers the opportunity to browse the native Tidal- and/or Qobuz-app (which is great!) while playing selected music to the DS/Bridge in the background. Just tap on the three dots next to an album, track or even playlist > select Share > select BubbleUPnP (> at first use select Enqueue to Bubble playlist to use as default) and enjoy.
I agree, I used Bubble for a couple of years whilst my system had uPnP but not Roon. It tried MConnect but the interface is the main stumbling block before considering any possible, but unlikely sound differences.
Now my system is Roon Ready, uPnP apps sit lonely and forgotten in the backwaters of my phone app pages.
Personally, I think people looking for differences in sound quality between these apps are looking in the wrong place for getting better quality home audio, for example they should be looking at power supplies and, as Paul suggests (for people still using computers), reclocking the usb output.
Blockquote
" Personally, I think people looking for differences in sound quality between these apps are looking in the wrong place"
I wasnt looking for any sound change ! I was frustrated with Mconnect and wanted another option to control streaming. I have over 10 TB of files I haven’t hooked up yet and may end up the Roon rout. I cant say anything yet as I haven’t tried Roon but have heard it can change the sound for the worse !
I figured it out as its a bit confusing at first. Like any App you need to figure it out ! I like it better than Mconnect for now. With all my files Im sure Ill have to go Roon or some organizing software
Having been streaming for most of the last 10 years or so, I’ve come to the conclusion that the user experience is as much down to the control app as anything else. I used Linn and Auralic’s own control apps that are specific to their units, then Bubble by uPnP, but Roon I find the best overall. I never found any of them compromised the sound.
The Qobuz OSX app has the best search engine for classical by far, the only problem with Roon in my opinion, and when I had a laptop handy I used it via the Devialet AIR protocol. I now sometimes search in Qobuz and then use the result to optimise my search for the same thing in Roon!
I agree with you 100%, they all sound different and all pass the bitperfect test. No idea why though, maybe it’s some kind of timing jitter or different noise pattens as computers are running different bits of code
I can send Qobuz to my audio system by bubble uPnP (android), MConnect (iOS), Airplay (OSX), Devialet Air or from my server by wired ethernet or usb. I use the wired ethernet route. So that’s 6 ways I can use the same app on different operating systems and hardware platforms, and there are probably others if I think about it. Throw Roon into the mix.
So if anyone has a few years spare and wants to compare hardware and software permutations, good luck. More luck finding a galaxy buried in your navel.
I will not dispute what others hear. But it definitely does not make any sense, as the control is not in the signal path (except when streaming, when the control app functions both as server and control). The signal path is server (be it minimserver, kazoo, twonky, plex or other). It is the server who “retrieves “ the music from storage, and deliver it to the endpoint. The control app only manages the play queue. If you use openhome protocol, via bubbleserver, you can even disconnect or turn off the control app, as the play queue will be managed by the open home server.
In Roon it is the same. The music is managed by Roon server, that can be stand alone installed and controlled by your phone or tablet.
It is a case study to explain these sound differences among control apps, provided the backend server is always the same.
Good to see this thread here
I’m currently running Bubble and having weird problems that I may have a handle on as of today.
Thought of changing to mConnect until I read others opinions so sticking with Bubble for now, especially as I may have fixed my problems - please please
It’s been a while since I last used bubble. Roon made me lazy.
Lately, I have been experimenting with Logitech media server, with great success. Fast and reliable. You can stream to upnp, using the upnp addin. Only thing is that it will reside on a computer or NAS. Not directly from your phone, as with bubble.
Happy listening !! 