Hi Greg, as you know I’m using both the Muon Pro and an audiophile switch, the PhoenixNET. I agreed with you philosophy: no need for more ports, why a switch?
I have no wifi in my room. A fiber dedicated line from the external of the house (and with a different account from the provider) connected to the router. So fiber IN > Ethernet OUT. No other ports used of the router, just the one intended for music purpose.
It means that the more logical path should be: router > muon pro > streamer. Unfortunately, after having experienced few listening sessions, I put back the switch in the equation. The sound quality appears to be strongly improved to my ears.
So I’m a firm believer in “switches” even with a muon pro already in the chain, even with no real needs of more Ethernet ports. Just for sound quality.
Be aware: the MUs are so immune to noise that my experience above mentioned could be different in your case.
Hope that helps.
PS: Tempus is a switch, TEMPEST is a bad thing for a bunch of reasons! LOL
Ha. So, the Tempus is more than a “tempest in a tea pot”. Muon claims additional benefits and you also like this functionality unnecessary device. I thought this would be the response. Thanks for the feedback.
I think everyone wants to have as few devices as possible in their setup. Especially active ones which also need an own power supply. Thus a pure passive solution like the Muon Pro streaming system is very convenient and also provides a clear benefit.
You might also try in your setup a better power supply for your modem like the iFi iPowerX oder Elite.
As always, every setup is highly individual so trying out things is the best approach to also verify for you what works and to what extent.
Good suggestion on using a better power supply for the modem. I’m sure there is the iFi and others, in addition to audiophile modems themselves. It never ends.
OK, I’ll bite (or at least nibble around the edges)…
Where can such an animal be found and how difficult are they to supplant a Direct TV base modem/router? I don’t want to add another network traffic cop to my system, which currently consists of the Direct TV/ATT router/modem connected to an eero Wi-Fi mesh base station.
I like @luca.pelliccioli 's idea of having a separate internet service just for the stereo room. That eliminates all of the other normal house network traffic from the stereo playback network. Here it would be relatively inexpensive as the CATV is a much bigger part of the bill than the internet service is.
One would think, and one would hope, that a “less is more” view of signal transmission would do the least harm. But, it seems particularly necessary in the digital world that you need noise scrubbers at every
junction. But what do I know? If they say it’s better, it has to be better, right?
Thanks for the link. At the end of the switch review, they say that the Grimm MU1 streamer eliminates the common noise ahead of it. I have the same streamer in the MU2. Al might be right. Again.
Well taking something out of context is misleading - but I am sure you already knew that
It clearly is stated just in the sentences before:
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Is the effect of a switch the same in every system? No. Because it also depends on where you place the switch and especially: where you plug in the power supply of the switch. Do you use the standard, switching power supply and plug it into the same socket as your dac or streamer? Then the power supply noise can work its way into the other devices. Also, a streamer can be made completely immune to noise. Consider the Grimm MU-1. That is designed so that (common mode) noise has no chance. Perfect. However, complex and pricey to do really well. Otherwise all other manufacturers would do that, we estimate.
In short: does a switch matter? Yes … in many cases it does. And sometimes not … :-).
//
So if you got to spend 15.000,- to 20.000,- just for your streamer and have also a very sophisticated power conditioner and power supply in your setup, the effect of those measured are no longer that noticeable. Though when people are aready in that budget scale they want to improve things further and for sure better switches can further enhance things, though to a smaller scale.
As with all HiFi devices, people are completely free to go their way. If trying out and experiencing on their own, or just staying in a fixed opinion/mindset. I have come quite a long way over the last 30 years and it definitely is very challenging to achieve the level a high-end CD player setup with streaming. Luckily a lot of R&D has been put into this area over the years and apart from very super premium products, there is a lot to use and improve for far less money.
Hans B. and Al A. (yes our Al) are among those who have my attention when they talk about gear.
Both of them have experienced same results with Grimm MU1:
Ethernet path seems to have less influence
Ethernet cables have lesser impact
Network Acoustics old filters have subtle effects (Eno and Muon first gen)
Muon PRO filter on the contrary is more impactful
In my experience Ethernet cables seem to improve the SQ even more than USB cables (maybe because I have an external MSB USB Pro module in the path, it means fiber connection to the DAC).
Ethernet network is so crucial in my case, upstream the server/streamer I mean, that even the way to power the router matters: I recently tried the iFi power switch mode toy and after a few songs I reinstalled my Sean Jacobs PSU. The difference was evident (as much as the price). Last week I upgraded the DC cable used from PSU to router, once again… the Mundorf silver-gold wire improved the sound. What? Yes, it did!
Conclusion:
Network Acoustics has clear in mind what the Grimm is capable of in term of performance and noise reduction (they had to develop a second Muon filter to achieve a result, but they did)
If the Tempus can be a challenge for NA, I’m sure you can ask them if it works with the Grimm as well as the Muon Pro
you can wait for next Hans B. and/or Al A. review
all other common mortals who have not a Grimm, could try the Tempus if they are curious (like me).
Rob from NA promised me a unit to test but they received a lot of orders since they launched the product and they are running hard to fulfill the pending orders. We had to postpone my test… and it makes sense.
Luca, again you offered a great guideline on how and where to implement improvements on streaming chain.
My streaming chain started with hardwire connection to the satellite, and my router is on the 2nd floor so I use WiFi. I don’t know if upgrading PSU for the main router would make any difference, but IFI for the Orbi satellite did. My next step will be to upgrade it to a LPS (Linear Tube makes a good one at a more “reasonable “ price). I believe it will have much more impact than the main router upstairs. This is based on your latest revelation on how much PS matters.
USB cable made better improvements than Ethernet cable in my system (both are Shunyata Omega). It probably because I was using fiber optic link between Lumin U2 and LHY SW-10 (their recommendation). None of my other ethernet cables could beat FB, but Omega did. The ethernet cable upstream of my two switches (and FB link) made little difference in my system.
New streamers, filters, and digital cables popped up so frequently so this area remains a dangerous place for audiophile addicts😆
I wish I could clear up all the confusion regarding the effects (or lack of effects) of various ethernet switches or filters on sound quality. However, as we often have to admit, each streaming system seems to have its own unique set of challenges. In my own system, I have ended up using two ethernet switches (EE 8Switch and PhoenixNet) and two separate ethernet filters (Eno and Muon Pro). My system sounds very good using just one switch and one filter, but it sounds even better (more relaxed, more natural, more liquid) with two switches and two filters.
My basic streaming system is built mainly around Innuos products (Zen, PNET, PUSB), and my Netgear modem and router (still with switch-mode power supplies and wall-warts) are relegated to my basement, far away from my streamer/server. Maybe all of my switches and filters wouldn’t be needed if I were using a MU1 as my streamer, but I’m not sure of that. I’ve heard from reliable sources (on this forum and elsewhere) that the Muon Pro filter can still improve the sound of the MU1, and Christiaan Punter’s review of the Tempus switch on the HFA website makes comments about how the Tempus can still do its “magic” when using it with the MU1.
I still don’t know if the PNET switch sounds better than the Tempus switch would in my system, and I don’t know if upgrading the power supplies on my modem and router would improve the sound at all. Also, I don’t know if I could boost streamer sound quality by replacing my Muon Pro ethernet cable with a different cable or how much of a SQ boost I could get with a MU1 or an Innuos Pulsar or Statement.
What I do know is that I like the sound I’m getting out of my streaming system now and that it’s significantly better than how it sounded before I made a major effort to clean up noise and prevent it from getting to my streamer and DAC. So I guess the good news is that there are rewards to be unearthed as we dive further down the streaming “rabbit hole.” The bad news is just how confusing and expensive that dive can be.
I appreciate the support.
So say you have internet service in your house. Wireless for everyone. And your audio system? You have never streamed before. You only listen to CDs. So no internet needed.
You decide to start streaming, at first, by demand, you use an Eversolo DMP-A6. No danger of jumping in too deep, too quickly. But OH NO! Right over the edge you go. What do you do? You buy an MU2.
This of course, is the only correct answer possible. But here is the deal, The Modem, is located 20 inches away with 5/8 inch Sheetrock between it and an MU2. So also correctly, you buy a MUON Pro system. Three feet of luxury cable and a Magical Black Box (cue theme music).
I believe a person could sit and enjoy such a setup. And rather than worry about adding switches or ground control devices this fella needs to hear Stealths best interconnects between the MU2 and his BHK 600 amplifiers. I am going to make that happen next week. Moohahaha!
