Very cool, albeit a bit scary.
One of my favorite progressive house producers has been touring with the biggest holograms in the world at the moment. Hereās a massive astronaut floating over the crowd during one of his shows:
After months of listening to Red Cloud and far too often finding my that my system continually keeps failing to really pull me into the music anymore, I have reluctantly switched back to Huron.
Red cloud really sounds fantastic in in terms of its wider and more forward-sounding soundstage, greater detail, and transparency. And it definitely makes a great first impression. But where it falls slightly short is in both the tone and bloom of the instruments. Its very much better in this regard than were some of its failed predecessors such as Pikes Peak which I disliked after only a couple of days of listening.
But the longer I listen, the less I like it. I have swapped amps three times now trying to get that magical tone back. But nothing has worked. My most romantic sounding tube amps canāt put enough bloom back into the signal to satisfy me. And with SS, I like it even less.
Huron managed to capture some of that magical quality to its tone that only 1.21 (and to a lesser degree Torrys) could previously manage. Bells now have a glorious ring to them again. Guitars resonate deeply again. And my foot taps like crazy again. I have lost that much improved soundstage, and some detail (which I definitely miss when listening to Huron), but overall, my ears are far happier.
I think that Red Cloud has come the closest to bridging that gap between musicality and detail that this DAC has struggled to straddle for so long. But IMO the pendulum swung just a tad too far in the hyper-detail direction on this latest attempt.
Great effort Ted! But I think that Iām going to have to sacrifice my soundstage so that I can enjoy my music again. Iām already enjoying CDs again which I had forgotten what it was about them that sounded so great.
Correct me if I am wrong, but my impression is that about 50% of the differences in sound each time-around stem from actual improvements inside of the PFGA code, but that the other 50% are just the luck of the draw in terms of how any given FPGA build will actually sound. So when you guys finally decide to wrap this thing up once and for all, I would recommend that you deliberately attempt to achieve more than one āflavorā for the DS using your random number generator to give users the best possible sounding hyper-detail build, as well as the best-sounding musical build too.
I realize that we can sort-of do this right now with the existing firmwares. The problem with this approach is that is leaves users behind, running out of date code when they could be enjoying some benefits of the latest version. I wouldnāt bother until you have decided that it is the end of the line though since there is so much effort involved in the whole selection process.
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I have very wide tastes. I listen to jazz, classical, rock, prog, pop, opera, electronic - you name it. Iāll listen to just about anything that is musically good and also sounds decent, except for Ā©rap.
@TarnishedEars I mention something very similar to your experience in the āRed Cloud upgradeā thread. Iāve switched back and forth between Redcloud and Huron about 7 or 8 times now. While I really like the smoothness and more forward presentation of Redcloud, I donāt get the same enjoyment from Redcloud that I get from Huron.
In terms of detail, they seem to show it in different ways; I hear things in Redcloud that I donāt in Huron, and vice versa.
The short story for me is that I find it far easier to achieve the sense of being there with Huron.
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@tarnishedears Thank you. When you mention guitar, was that electric guitar, Classical guitar, etc.?
I listen primarily to classical music but have no experience with other versions of DS DAC. I received mine in December and it came set up with Red Cloud and BridgeII latest firmware. FWIW, I know I can backup to Huron.
I was thinking of acoustic Guitar when I made that particular comment. But in some regards I find electric Guitars to be more enjoyable on Huron too.
Hi Ted,
Iād been annoyed with the pop/click noise issue of DSD files.
However, with the recent Redcloud update, noise is reduced to a negligible level, or none depending on the track.
Thanks a lot and please keep up the great work!
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Ted, itās been about six weeks since your last update on future FPGA improvements. Did you resolve the paper-vs-simulation issue? Any more subconscious ideas bearing fruit?
Thanks.
Itās not the only thing Iām working on. Usually I get the big idea for the next release fully formed āout of the blueā - I just have to be thinking about it for a while. Itās one of the things I canāt rush.
All artists must wait for inspiration. The muses can be fickle.
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And we wait, wide-eyed to hear from inside his lab, āThe Myoooozzz Is upon me!ā
Ted,
Hurry up and finish with the new speaker digital crossover so you can get back to further refinement of your masterpiece DACs.
Dan
Ted, I followed the recommendations to this link per your instructions regarding noise from speakers.
A lot has been said about the noise that is to be expected from DSJ and DS Senior, but does this same theory apply to the PS Audio NuWave DSD DAD? Iām assuming it does (single bit DSD DAC), but I want to be sure.
My problem with the NuWave is that I donāt have the means to lower the noise floor 20dB as the aforementioned DACās do. Are my best options to insert a preamp in my system (right now Iām using a Bluesound Node 2 to NuWave to S300 to Monitor Audio Silver 300ās), or to insert an in-line attenuator?
I noticed the NuWave has an output level maximum of 2.8VRMS and 6.5 VRMS vs. the DS Seniorās 1.41 VRMS and 2.81 VRMS. Does this mean the NuWave is potentially inherently more ānoisy,ā and thus the problem is worse with my DAC?
I too have the noise and itās quite aggravating as it wasnāt there before with my ācheaperā setup" using just the Node 2 into the S300. Iām definitely noticing more detail in the music which is awesome, but itās at a cost with the much increased noise.
I donāt know anything in particular about the NuWave. Itās not a single bit DAC so I donāt think the noise should be inherent. The DSās output is a little lower than āstandardā and most other PS Audio DACs are a little higher. In and of itself the output level isnāt related to the S/N ratio of a DAC (after all it is a ratio.) On the other hand if you are directly running into the same amp and the lower level DAC has all of the volume you need you may be āwastingā some of the S/N ratio in the higher level DAC. If thereās a preamp in the system none of this should matter.
Thanks so much for the response and or explaining everything, Ted.
Just curiousā¦would you mind expanding and explaining a bit more regarding your comment that āif you are directly running into the same amp and the lower level DAC has all of the volume you need you may be āwastingā some of the S/N ratio in the higher level DAC.ā What do you mean by this? Just trying to understand/learnā¦
If you donāt have a preamp then a DAC with a higher full output level will be louder than a DAC with a lower output level. If your system doesnāt get to a volume level you need to enjoy the music with the lower output level DAC, youāll need a preamp.
If your system sounds fine with the lower output level then youād need to turn the higher output level DACās volume down. If that DAC has a digital volume control, youāll wonāt be using the top bits of the output. Whether thereās still enough S/N when not using the top bits is DAC specific.
With a preamp none of this matters, without a preamp itās harder to get the output ranges of source components to match the input range of the amp(s). Thereās no magic solution for all systems, it depends on the system setup as a whole.
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Ted, thank you again for the reply and for taking the time to help me through my lack of understanding.
As it stands now I can adjust the sound on my Bluesound Node 2 (my source) to either āfixedā or āvariable.ā Obviously I have it set to āvariableā since Iām not using a preamp and Iām using the Node 2ās digital volume control.
Further, I can adjust the minimum/maximum dB settings on the Node 2.
So, if Iām getting lots of excess noise should I play with these perimeters to see if I can lower the noise? I think the lowest volume setting is something like -90db and the highest is somewhere around 20db (Iām not at home at the moment so I cannot tell for sure).
Iām getting PLENTY of volume in my system and Iām not going anywhere NEAR the max. So, I have room to spare if needed. Plus, when I inserted the balanced XLR cables the volume went up even further on the same settings. Or, if not, Iām beginning to see that inserting a preamp my be the best option as you related in your other response.
It sounds like my biggest problem is my higher level DAC (NuWave) doesnāt have a volume controlā¦
Ted,
I did some experimenting yesterday and I was able to isolate the problem. With the Node 2 directly connected to the NuWave DSD in turn connected directly to the S300 I tried 1) adjusting the digital volume control both up and down with the Node 2, 2) swapping out the coax cable for a toslink cable, 3) swapping between RCAās and balanced interconnects, and 4) inserting a preamp (NAD 326bee) into the chain between the NuWave and the S300.
Needless to say, inserting the preamp lowered the noise substantially. There was no question about it - as you clearly related. However, it created another āproblemā in that some of the lower-level detail that was there before without the preamp in the system was not not as defined. But what was now there was more detail and more musicality, so the trade-off was worth it.
Iām assuming/hoping that upgrading my preamp section some day hopefully soon will help with some of the lower-level missing detail. This problem wasnāt there prior to inserting the NAD 326bee. Now Iām forced to use RCAās instead of balanced, so I hope to get that element back once I get a balanced preamp.
Thank you again for your help in helping me isolate the problem and for helping me learn. My music is sounding much better now!
Now I just need to play around with some DSD files through my PC and see what those sound like!
Doug