I read in this thread that some of you were using hq player prior in the chain to the DAC. Does this require you to use a pc as your streamer? I currently use an Auralic Aries G2 as my streamer, which acts as a room endpoint. I then run a usb cable from the Aries to the DSD. It would be great if I could just spin up a VM for hq player as a simple network endpoint. Roon could send data to hq player then to my Aries streamer, which would be connected via usb to the May.
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Iām straight from the Aires to the May with Lightning DS. Nothing in between hardware or software wise and personally donāt have a need for either Roon or HQ player. Check with Brett about HQ player and the May.
Thanks.
Same here. The designer of the dac explains in an interesting article how pure NOS avoids filter ringing artefacts (pre and/or post ringing found in delta sigma dacs).
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Do you have a link to this article? Iām interested in reading it.
Thanks. Had to double take when responding to this, since the thread title changed.
Very interesting. I particularly liked this phrase.
" a wrong information is far more harmful than no information."
Whole lot of truth there.
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Very interesting read indeed. It seems to me that using HQ player or Roon to upsample would introduce ringing artifacts, and go against the recommendations of the author. But I am no expert, and my MEE degree is 30 years old.
Maybe @brett66 can chime in, he knows a lot about this stuff.
I donāt have HQ player (donāt want to reintroduce a PC in my audio chain), but I will try upsampling in Roon (Nucleus +) when break in is complete.
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That article made alot of sense to me. Take aways:
A) First do no harm. I would say this is a good rule for all things in life, including audio.
B) Our brains are more capable of interpretation and calculating missing information that sounds more natural to our ears than computers and upsampling.
This paragraph in the article summed it up:
āFor the missing information, the traditional audio industry believe āthere is always better than nothingā, but this is actually a wrong direction. For people, ā rather go without than have something shoddy ā, a wrong information is far more harmful than no information.ā
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Certainly try Roon upsampling but know that it is a very simple methods (SoX) compared to HQPlayer.
The only way to know is to listen and experience it to know if you like upsampling or not. I like it much more with the May than I did with the DS. Of course, the DS is doing its own upsampling and the May is not. Of course, NOS May is wonderful too but I do enjoy the ālack of noiseā with HQP upsampling.
I suspect that Jeff Zhu is referring to typical chip based upsampling (very low processing ability) in the article. I donāt understand the math involved in upsampling but from what I do understand Jussi Laako author of HQPlayer is a world leader along with Ted Smith in the field.
Phil, you already have a PC in your audio chain with Roon. HQPlayer would/should live on its own PC and ideally a low power endpoint running Jussiās dedicated NAA image would be connected to your dac.
DSD256 with 7EC modulator is something to behold. It will tax a modern PC processing ability consuming ~100W but itās very much worth it to my ear over NOS.
Separation via network of the processing backend, Roon and HQP, from the low power Ethernet to USB bridge endpoint device connected to the dac is not fundamental but definitely brings that final few % of improvement to my ear. Even Roon recommends this topology with their Roon Bridge.
Hereās my system diagram. Iāve focused of isolating the CPU intensive processes both from a machine perspective and a power perspective. My Roon and HQP Embedded machines are on another dedicated 20A circuit from the circuit feeding the P10 and everything audio, including the low power NAA fanless computer connected to the Mac dac.
P.S. I have a Serene preamp on the way to compare and contrast with the BHK pre with Telefunken ECC802S tubes. It will be a most interesting shootout and Iāll only keep one of them in the end.
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Thank you @brett66 , very interesting.
Right now, I have Roon on the Nucleus +, connected to a router or switch, connected Ethernet to my Lumin U1. Then from the Lumin, usb to Matrix and I2S to Holo.
I do have a few old laptops sitting around, nothing Deep Blue level, though.
Is there a way I could try hqplayer without additional expenditure (my audio budget is finished this year) ? If not, I will just give it a chance with Roon. Whatās SoX by the way ?
PS let us know about the Serene. Given the difference in cost with the BHK, I expect the BHK to wipe the floor with the Serene. Unless itās in line with the performance of the May ā¦
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I thought my external hard drive connected to my laptop via USB 3 then wireless to my X1 Xfinity Gateway and then via Ethernet to the Bridge in my DS DAC was complicated enough.
No disrespect intended, but you guys seem to go through a lot more gyrations. I can only assume itās worth it.
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Hereās an interesting review GoldenSound did of the Holo Serene Preamp.
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Yes, you can try it for no cost. It will play music for 30 mins. then stop, you can simply restart the software and play for another 30 mins. indefinitely. This is how he handles evaluations.
If either of the laptops is already running Windows I would suggest downloading the Windows Desktop version as it would be the easiest to get up and running. Signalyst
PCM upsampling requires very little CPU but you should also be able to do DSD128 on a 5 year old laptop, give or take, with some of the less CPU intensive modulators.
Iām happy to give you some getting started settings if you need. The defaults also work fine so donāt worry about it too much while getting it all working. No need to set up HQP with a library as Roon can remain the main interface with HQP connected and passing the audio flux but otherwise no interaction with HQP is required once setup.
SoX is an open-source sampler Roon used. It requires little CPU and is not very advanced. SoX - Sound eXchange | FAQ
The Serene will be interesting and is 5-6 weeks out. From what Iāve read its performance it is in line with the May and I expect it will be a good fight especially given the cost of great tubes these days.
P.S. The Matrix is really not doing anything for the May that it doesnāt already do itself. Take it out and try USB direct. Listen for any difference.
To realize much improvement with upsampling everything else must already be setup well. Speakers out in the room, some room treatment, good power. If these arenāt in place, Iād address them first as they have far more impact than the subtleties of sampling to shape the digital noise.
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I have no analog experience. Nor have I had any CD transports for more than 20 years. My entire career has been spent building vastly more complex enterprise computer systems. 3 computers in my audio setup was essentially no learning curve for me.
Turntable isolation, cartridge setup, phono stages et al seem very complex to me.
Hereās an interesting take on HQP vs. Chord Mscaler. His experience with delays does not meet with my experience but he does try to describe the differences in filters. Keep in mind this is mostly for PCM and I used to enjoy 1.5MHz PCM but have since converted to DSD with EC modulators and now high rate PCM sounds clinical and cold, less refined, to me. Itās all a matter of taste and the beauty of HQP is the ability to season to taste and not be locked into whatever choices the DAC has built-in. Itās ideally paired with a true NOS dac like the May - Denafrips have been found to not be NOS, at all.
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I have a Small Green Computer sonicTransporter i9 running HQPlayer embedded.
I believe the STi9 runs on a Linux platform, so keep that in mind regarding the following comments.
The KTE Mayās USB input is phenomenal along with its PLL.
As far as I am concerned, there is no need to use any other input, unless you do not have USB.
A DDC, such as the Matrix is not necessary, just run USB straight into the KTE May ( or L2 May ).
I have tried the following connections with HQPlayer embedded on the STi9;
STi9 straight USB out into the KTE May, HQPlayer ALSA backend ( no NAA )
STi9 Ethernet out into a MeLE computer stick ( Windows Pro ) as NAA with HQPlayer, USB to KTE May.
STi9 fiber out to Sonore Sig Rendu SE as NAA, USB to KTE May.
I was surprised at how well the STi9 straight USB out to the KTE May sounded. ( 3rd place )
The MeLE worked surprising well as NAA and only cost $165 delivered, a bargain NAA device. ( 2nd place )
The Sonore Sig Rendu SE ( as NAA ) was the winner, but only by a very small margin SQ wise vs the MeLE, feature wise it is the clear winner of the group.
So you may be able to stream from whatever you use as your streamer ( with HQPlayer ) without having a NAA.
I did try the Matrix via I2S into the KTE May and it was no contest vs USB, USB was superior.
Edit regarding the PLL;
PLL is not needed with the Sonore Sig Rendu USB output, it makes no difference.
PLL does improve on the USB out from the STi9 and MeLE, they are basically headless PCs.
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Thank you for the link which I will read.
Iāve been using turntables since c. 1967. Set-up and maintenance were easy to begin with and I enjoyed the way the music sounded with them. Havenāt had a turntable in my system since getting a German one about 10 years ago that was incorrectly set-up by the American vendor when I opted for a cartridge that didnāt come with it stock.
Iāve used computers in one form or another since 1973 starting with a PDP 11/70 used for statistical analysis when I was going for a graduate degree. It used punch cards. A lot of them.
Each one of which I had to manually keypunch just like my dad did when he was a keypunch operator for Merrill Lynch back in the '50s.
Iāve used PCs since their inception when they came with one 5 1/4 floppy drive to load the program and then you had to pop it out to insert another one to record the data. And Iāve enjoyed them all through their evolution to where we are now.
My only point is that Iām not looking to complicate my life any more than it needs to be and if I can obtain acceptable sound doing so then good.
I admire the steps that those of us in this hobby of ours undertake to obtain what sounds the best to us. At this point, however, itās not for me but the pursuit of better and better sound by others helps to keep this hobby viable.
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If you go back to roughly post 207 there is a link to a reviewer comparing the two (posted by Phil).
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHcfgQtlnP8
I think he talks about the L2 and KTE differences. I think he said the differences are not that great
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