No apology necessary (and I certainly did not intend to solicit one).
Have you thought about how you might use Wi-Fi over your network? This eliminates the need to run any type of cable a long distance to your Hi-Fi kit/room.
Wi-Fi - to router and/or Wi-Fi receiver. From there there are nearly a myriad of ways to get the signal to your DAC (depending on its inputs and your preferences) - none of which need be prohibitively expensive.
For what its worth,
Scott
No, I had not really thought of Wi-Fi. The mother board I’m looking at, for the server has Wi-Fi on it. But, can you expand on how I’d; route the sound to Wi-FI and then to some receiver on the DAC, in the living room. Call me confused.
It depends on how you want to hook up to your DAC.
In my case, my computer/server is my desktop computer located at a desk on the main floor. My Hi-Fi system is located in another room on the second floor.
I have an Eero Mesh Wi-Fi System to help distribute Wi-Fi throughout the house. The main unit is attached via Ethernet to my modem/router, which is in the same room as my Hi-Fi system. I run Ethernet from the Eero base unit to an Ethernet switch which serves all of my internet-connected components in the system (which does double stereo and home theater - 7.1 - duty). The Eero is not a requirement, I just found it improved my whole-house Wi-Fi connectivity.
My current networked input preference for my PSA DirectStream DAC is the PSA Ethernet Card (the Bridge II). The chain from the Bridge II back to the Ethernet switch is as follows:
Bridge II > Pink Faun Ethernet Isolator > Ethernet cable > TP Link Media Converter > duplex fiber optic cable > TP Link Media Converter > Ethernet cable > Ethernet switch.
The network is rock solid and all music files on my desktop computer downstairs and streamed via Roon and/or JRiver Media Center (including Qobuz and Tidal content c/o of Roon or their respective control applications) are controlled wirelessly from my iPhone or iPad.
If you don’t want any networking equipment (modem, router, cables, etc.) in the room with your HI-Fi, my approach would not be of interest to you. It’s just one approach.
However, I understand there are “black boxes” available - streamers and such - that are Wi-Fi compatible that can connect to DACs with just one cable. I think there are some “Wi-Fi dongle” type devices out there as well but I don’t know much about them or how capable they are.
Also, if Ethernet input to your DAC is not an option, there are a variety of manufacturers making converters that can turn your Ethernet signal into a form that is compatible with your DAC input of choice.
Hope this helps some.
Maybe others that have opted for a Wi-Fi approach will chime in regarding how they go about it.
My setup is primarily wifi and it works fine, even with the relatively slow internet speeds we get (25-30 mps).
The modem is in the living room with the main TV setup. That modem is wired by a short run of Cat5 to a nearby Linksys mesh node, which then distributes the wifi signal around the house, picked up and reinforced by 3 other nodes in strategic locations. Everything that’s connected to the internet (TVs, HT receiver, my iMac server, Node 2i, various Alexa Echo devices, doorbell/cam, mobile phones and tablets, thermostat, generator, etc.) is using wifi to access the network. The only exception is an Aurender streamer, which has no wifi capability. So it’s connected by a short run of Cat5 to the mesh node that sits in the listening room, and it seems to be getting content from streaming services fine. The only disappointing surprise was to learn how many mesh nodes I needed to make things work in our relatively small house (less than 1800 sf on first floor and a full basement underneath).
So not only are my streamers using wifi, so is the server itself. And with the sole exception of the Node 2i’s documented inability to “see” an external drive connected to the iMac, it all works about 99% of the time. When it doesn’t, it’s almost always the Node 2i that’s lost its way, and a quick reboot usually puts it right.
How is your DAC connected to the network?
TIA
I use an Intel NUC, which has a 1 TB SSD, connected to the SGC by a quality Audioquest USB cable, and use a full fat version of Audirvana, which is installed on the NUC
@tom.brewer
Here’s a suggestion of a hybrid of what I do. See above for how I set up my isolated network using a WISP router.
For your case, your main issue for long distance transmission/control is that the GC DAC has no network input, which complicates things and means your renderer has to near your DAC. I say this because from what I have found, many baluns (for example USB over ethernet) do not actually do 480mbps - some of it has to do with the signalling between the source and end point in order to signal the capability.
You could go USB optical, because in theory, USB 3.0 over optical fiber is capable of up to 5Gbps. This would also give you the much touted galvanic isolation.
What I propose is to get a Raspberry Pi with something like an Allo or Hiffiberry digi hat, along with the software of your choice - JRiver, Moode, Volumio, etc. - or even Roon if you’re not a tight@ss like me.
You can also go full quality with a reclocker board (see my Iancanada build) and external power supply. I believe Allo makes digital renderers ready to go as well, and I think the HifiBerry Digi reclocks.
Place the Pi next to the DAC and connect however you want. Note - if you’re using USB between Pi and DAC, you don’t need all the hat/card stuff. Although the Pi is already a good USB player (and why the Mano uses it for it’s core), you can make it better by using a better supply.
Instead of getting a Windows server, get a 2 bay NAS, operating as RAID such as Synology (what I have for storage). This will also preserve your music files better, because of redundant storage.
The current Pi4 has built in wifi, so that will clear you that way.
Use your software of choice to stream from your NAS to the Pi, playing to your DAC (via USB, or SPDIF - setting up i2s like I did gets a little more complicated - but not by much).
The best part of doing it this way - no wires between your source/server (NAS) and your renderer (Pi). Only whatever wire you use to connect your Pi to your DAC.
You do have to think about the alternatives already presented to you.
Physical cable have length limits- [I think]- usb can go up to 5m. Toslink (if you never use hi-res music files or DSD files) can be up to 10/15m depending on what you read).
network- this frees up the distance, but require new hardware of your choosing.
If you really don’t care about ultimate sound quality- BT over to a device like IFI Blu Zen (which outputs optical or coax into the DAC).
btw- you can always continue to use iTunes if you don’t need new software- computer can always output digital signals out from some source/software… it is just a matter of what you prefer or know how to do.
Scott, it is not connected to the network. I was using an Apple Airport Express, which is wireless. But, it died!
On my DAC, I have the following inputs available for use.
RCA Coaxial inputs, IIS (eye-squared-S), RCA Analog (left/right), XLR balanced (left and right)
The Airport used to RCA analog inputs.
Ya, that cable length limit is killing. Above, I posted to Scott and I’ll include that here so that you’ll know my available inputs and maybe can think of a solution for a remote computer.
“On my DAC, I have the following inputs available for use.
RCA Coaxial inputs, IIS (eye-squared-S), RCA Analog (left/right), XLR balanced (left and right)”
That is why I suggested the Pi to play to the GC DAC. Since the GC has no network capability, the Pi would be the renderer (through wifi) playing to the DAC. The Pi would be placed right next to the DAC with the connection of his choice, but the music would be from his server (the suggested NAS connected to his wifi router via Ethernet as network storage of course) in another room (via wifi). So no lengthy wire between which, as you say, has usable limitations. Most NAS these days have DLNA capabilities already built in. Even if not, if he uses a computer/server with Windows 10 (as he suggested earlier), he would be able to make it network accessible too.
He would just need a controller to get the music to play from his NAS/computer/server to the Pi over wifi - no lengthy wires between.
If he was using the analog outputs from the Airport, he would likely be satisfied with the Pi with Allo streamer or HifiBerry DAC+ (or similar) ouputting analog (bypassing the internal DAC of the GC. I believe the current interations of DAC hats for the Pi exceeds the capability/sound of the Airport anyway.
Should help with the discussion…
I have two DACs that I use interchangeably, and neither is freestanding. One is internal to the Node 2i, and that whole unit is on wifi. Whether that means you can say its DAC and the network are connected, or if what’s connected is just the streamer, I don’t know. The other DAC is in the SGCD, and that’s not connected to the network at all.
Edit: I just remembered I do have another DAC (an old Channel Islands Audio VDA-1 modded by Modwright), but it’s not in the system at all right now.
I am using the Stellar GainCell DAC, as you have. It is not currently connected to the “network.” That’s what I’m attempting to do, put it one the network. The available ports that I have are:
RCA Coaxial inputs, IIS (eye-squared-S), RCA Analog (left/right), XLR balanced (left and right)
I think I should connect by adapting Ethernet or Wireless (Wi-Fi) to one of these available ports.
That would be an interesting project. If you explained that in an earlier post, I apologize for missing the point.
I’m not sure what to suggest. The mesh network nodes I checked out when I was in the market only have ethernet ports, not USB. There are some cheap adapters out there that have an ethernet port at one end and a USB connection on the other, but even if they’d work for this purpose, you’d still need that mesh node (or a network extender) to plug it into. Maybe there’s a product out there that acts like a general wifi signal receiver with USB, coax or Toslink outputs. I’m pretty sure you’d be limited to those inputs since PSA’s I2S pin protocol is not standard HDMI, and I doubt any of the analog inputs would know what to do with digital data signals.
Ya, Craig. I just did some research on I2S and you are correct. I should have not added that to my list. So, it comes down to, how do I connect to one of my inputs, RCA Coaxial, RCA analog, or XLR to a remote server?
I guess one choice could be two long XLR cables. Fortunately they are balanced, so distance might not be a problem. But, then how do I adapt from XLR to the remote computer? What a mess!!
FYI:
There are some neat boxes available from this manufacturer that might be of interest.
Cheers.
[Hat tip: @2muchgear]
Even if you found a way to connect an XLR at your computer, I doubt the setup would work because you’d be sending digital data to an analog port on the SGCD. If it made any sound at all, it would probably be unpleasant, like an old modem, or when you accidentally called a fax line.
You’re missing the point of network audio. Please give me a chance to explain.
You don’t want to transport a digital, unframed, bitstream long distances. That’s for professional studios to connect their mixing desks together. In a residential environment you want to use the IP network to move the audio around. That is, router to switch to server to endpoint with, maybe, some wifi mixed in.
What you need to focus on are 2 things:
Then it becomes very straightforward. Stick your server anywhere on your network. Load the software. Take the endpoint to the DAC. Put it on the network and connect the other side to the DAC. Go back to your software and tell it output to the endpoint. Now you’re in business.
You were already doing this with iTunes, using Airplay as your network streaming protocol, to your Express network endpoint. I think I pasted this link before but a direct replacement to the Express is made by Belkin and here is the link:
Others have given all kinds of advise about software. Start there. Then work to find an endpoint that supports whatever that network streaming is needed to support that software over the network.
