Innuos Zenith mk3

Network Audio
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I have not heard the Zenith MK3 but would really enjoy the opportunity, especially in my home system. Even so, it remains one of the more influential pieces of hardware (along with the Zenith MK2 SE) for me personally as it served as the inspiration for my recent Windows-based streamer build.

Although Innuos uses SuperMicro ITX motherboards, I went with an ASRock ITX board which also accepts DC power. When visually comparing the MK2 SE board with a stock SuperMicro X10SBA, I see only a few differences which I would call minor, but notice that the PCIE slot, the VGA port and a few other components are present and unused. I thought that given the success of their systems, I might try building one from a similar board.

I also like the idea of a lower powered on-board processor since my PC will also be a player more than a server. I’m not intending to run something that would warrant an i5/i7 and even if I later needed that much compute, I could always replace the board easily enough.

The power supply configuration in the Zenith also heavily influenced my choices for my design. I liked that they didn’t use motherboard power for their components but I preferred keeping the power supplies I’m using outside of my case. The ASRock has a barrel jack to make that a little easier. I used discrete linear power supplies for the motherboard and another for the hard drive.

I also handled the USB out differently. Noticing that Innuos relies on the stock USB out connection, I can’t tell just from pictures if or how they might have addressed the USB output’s power, bus or clock to deliver an improved signal over stock. I used a PCIE slot and added a Matrix Element H card to mine, which I’m also powering externally and and like that the card reclocks the signal.

I’m using a USB external DVD for ripping as I don’t do that enough to warrant an internal device. For me, it’s just another internal component that could introduce noise.

Obviously Innuos has built a proprietary operating system which should be far leaner than Windows. I’ve paired down my background services, startup apps, graphics, etc, as much as possible. Same with my motherboard’s BIOS.

I’m planning to add some EMI shielding and vibration dampening to my case next.

By all accounts the Zenith a top flight piece of kit, well respected, and as of this evening, there are only 2 Innuos streamers for sale on the second hand market (via Hifi Shark). That says alot. If I could find an MK3 used for a fair price, I’d like to hear how far off I am with my build.

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The Mk3 uses a bespoke motherboard, whereas I understand the Mk2 does not. In the Mk3 everything unused is removed.
The internal power design on the Innuos is fundamental to the unit, including the usb and ethernet. If you are happy with external power, they do the much cheaper Mini units.
Innuos don’t believe the role of the unit is to reclock, so it doesn’t.
Innuos deal with shielding and vibration both internally and externally.
The INUos operating system is so lean, it’s almost ridiculous.
You are not likely to be using the CD drive when streaming. It is very useful and a lot better than dbpoweramp. Again, the operating system is stripped to the minimum, I recall the only options are fast/slow ripping (to reduce noise) and WAV/FLAC.

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Innuos posted a video of the OS here.


The music library management is very good, for example if you have duplicates to say have something ripped in FLAC and you want to re-rip in WAV, there is a quarantine system where you can review/delete, and it is very easy indeed to add titles and tags.

There is also a full description, in a very favourable review, here:
https://hifipig.com/innuos-zenith-mk2/

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Innuos keeps evolving their product and I’m watching them closely. It’s as important to understand the details of what you’re giving up when you build your own as what you’re getting.

Hifi Pig’s writeup of the MK2 should absolutely be read by anyone considering a streamer of some variety, but perhaps for reasons not intended by the author. What I find of interest is:

  1. The article starts off by making a comparison of the MK2 with various Vortexboxes the author built. That’s a different angle than most reviews and it appears that it may be setting up the rest of the review for more insight about these builds, especially the one referenced with multiple power supplies, and how these compare to an MK2 - but the review never returns to that subject in detail. That Vortexbox itself is an application, it would be fair and useful to compare its functionality with that of the Innuos OS rather than just imply Votexbox as a software/hardware combo and MK2 have much in common. But again, that software analysis doesn’t get addressed.

  2. The review goes on to do the bulk of the comparison with a ‘modified’ Mac mini that the author uses as a reference device. It would be helpful to understand what modifications were applied to the mini so the readers can make their own determinations as to how useful this comparison will be for them. Hundreds or thousands spent on Mac mods, whether these mods were done professionally or DIY, were these mods hardware only or did they include the OS, which OS? Even without this background, my read was that the mini was in the same league as the Innuos, which is the most surprising part of the review for me. Other people may read this differently.

  3. I can’t follow the reviewer’s premise that ‘many believe’ a galvanic isolator can turn a Dell into an Innuos (liberal paraphrasing). This seems like a Strawman given that some investigation into galvanic isolation which then leads to the purchase of an isolator should necessarily mean that the buyer sees beyond the bits are bits argument. What’s the point of isolation, if not? In this way the article sets a, perhaps unintentional, tone of lumping many of those with PC based plans together as either techno-simpletons, gullible or lazy. It strikes me as an oddly placed assumption, at minimum.

Even so, reading the article itself is part of the education process that someone should undertake if they want to understand where the market is going and will lead the curious to further useful reading. I really enjoyed that the author included what is presented as direct feedback from Innuos about their philosophy and approach. Anyone interested in more insight might want to check out an interview with Innuos’ Nuno Vitorino from Darko’s site - https://darko.audio/2019/02/a-short-film-about-the-innuos-zen-mk3/

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I have an Innuos Zenith Mk.3 (4TB) running Roon Core. I have 49,000 local tracks and concurrent subscriptions to TIDAL and Qobuz. I do run it multi room to three Sonos zones, a KEF LSX pair and the main stereo is direct connected via USB. I do not run any DSP upsampling or room correction filters 'though.

My DAC was a DirectStream Senior running Snowmass with Bridge II installed. I tried Ethernet through an AQVOX Switch, Ethernet direct from Innuos (it has two RJ45 ports) and USB. USB was going through a Matrix X-SPDIF 2 into I2S over HDMI. I2S input to DirectStream was superior than either Ethernet. Both Ethernet connections were equivalent and this is a compliment as the AQVOX SE switch is excellent in itself.

My first “proper” server was an Aurender X100L which I added a 3rd party Linear PSU to (PLiXiR BDC). At that time I hadn’t experimented with any USB Regeneration but thought the sound quality was excellent (and a big step up from my old Sonos Connect using Coax output).

However I became infatuated with Roon and decided to built my own Roon ROCK server. This was an Intel NUC 7i7BNH + 8GB RAM + 256GB System Disk (M.2).

I then added a 4TB Samsung Evo 860 for local music storage on SSD.

I then transplanted it into a fanless Asaka Plato case (which also involved setting everything to low speed mode in the BIOS to keep the heat down).

I then added a Keces P8 Linear Power Supply (19V + 12V).

I migrated from Roon’s own ROCK Linux to Euphony OS (initially v2 and then v3).

However it was only when I put an UpTone Audio ISO REGEN on the USB output did I really think it had surpassed the Aurender in audio quality. I got an UpTone LPS-1.2 to simultaneously power the REGEN and the Matrix X-SPDIF 2 converter.

This was an interesting “geek fest” for me, full of interesting tweaks and little boxes. In terms of a turnkey solution that looked aesthetically pleasing and was easy for my better half to use, well…

So I invested in the Innuos. Fundamentally it follows the recipe of generic micro / mini PC with Intel chipset, custom music oriented Linux OS, SSD for music storage, fanless case and Linear PSU. I know some people are cynical of the “innovation” or the BoM parts cost but from day one it sounded superior to my NUC based home brew system or the Aurender. It’s never crashed, is easy to use, simplifies CD ripping if you still need to do that, and let’s be honest, actually looks like a Hi-Fi component.

The Roon Nucleus(+) is by their own admission just an Intel NUC in one of the nicest fanless cases I have seen. However you still need to add an SSD if you want local storage of music and a Linear PSU. On my NUC I would say that the Keces LPSU did NOT make a big impact (and I am an LPSU addict) but the ISO REGEN did. Therefore I believe the USB ports of an Intel NUC are quite noisy irrespective of the quality of the power being fed to the board. Roon get around this as they would prefer you connect via Ethernet (NAA) and that can offer varying levels of electrical isolation.

However on the DirectStream the I2S input is far superior, in my opinion, than the built in Bridge II card.

I have subsequently upgraded from the DirectStream to a Chord Hugo TT 2 + M Scaler combination. I need to use USB as the Chord doesn’t have a built in streamer or RJ45 port. interestingly, taking the ISO REGEN out of the chain massively improved the sound quality in this scenario as the M Scaler is an upscaler and must implicitly re-clock the data stream by virtue of multiplying it by up to 16.

So now I’m Zenith -> USB cable -> M Scaler -> Dual BNC cables -> TT 2 DAC and this is the best sound quality I have achieved so far.

So I can recommend the Innuos Zenith, I think it would be better than the Nucleus and I would use the USB output through a Matrix to the I2S of the DirectStream. It happily supports concurrent multi room playback from both locally stored and streamed music but I do think it would struggle to do much DSP. However as your DAC oversamples to 20 x DSD you may not require that (I didn’t).

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Thanks for sharing your experience.

Right now, I am using a dCS Vivaldi upsampler as “streamer”. It is a similar concept as Chords, but with an Ethernet input.

I also run Roon, but from my Qnap NAS. The connection to the Vivaldi is per a SOtM switch. I was contemplating going to an Innuos, probably the zenith or the statement. The goal would be to connect the Innuos directly to the upsampler, for better SQ

If I understood your experience correctly, when with the BridgeII, you did not experience any improvement in going direct connection from the Innuos when compared to using your switch. Is that so?

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Your review was most helpful. I am an the verge of pulling the trigger on an Innuos Zenith Mk II. My new DSD DAC is still burning in. Your previous Zenith and DSD set-up is pretty close to where I expect to land. Do you have any recommendations for cables, USB, HDMI and power cords? When using the Matrisx SPDIF did you upgrade the to an LPS?

TIA.

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I believe had I been using a generic NetGear (or similar) 8 port switch then direct from the Innuos would actually be better as they’ve done some noise suppression around their Streamer Out Ethernet port. I didn’t perceive this as better as the switch I have (AQVOX SE) also has been modified to be low noise and jitter. If you have a SoTM switch then you will be in a similar position (I believe).

The Ethernet Inputs on dcs equipment I believe are also very good, a trialed a dcs Bartok DAC and also used a dcs Network Birdge when auditioning varous DACs. The PS Audio Bridge II is not the best input to the DirectStream DAC (nor is its USB port to be honest).

But from QNAP to Vivaldi or Innuos to Vivaldi via Ethernet I don’t believe you’ll notice much difference between Innuos direct or a music optimised switch such as the SoTM.

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Various forum threads do recommend a decent power cord and physical isolation for the Innuos.

To that end I have a Russ Andrews PowerKord-500 IEC mains lead, and I have installed a Synergistic Research BLUE Quantum Fuse in the Zenith. I’ve also used cera-disc isolation feet from plinth design:

which I’ve placed directly in front of the asymmetric Innuos feet (so they effectively hide the supplied feet from a front view). One of the “value adds” to the Zenith Mk II SE was superior physical isolation feet. As all drives are SSD this can only be helping to reduce laminate rattle that all power transformers produce. The cera-discs were hugely beneficial on my Aurender server, which did have rotating magnetic drives, and I’ve stuck with them ever since. They are conceptually similar to Still Points but you get four for £148 as opposed to one for £220…

Previously I’d invested in a Tellurium-Q Silver Diamond USB cable (which given its price will hopefully pass from generation to generation as a family heirloom). In fact I really should add it to the Will.

As you’ve probably worked out I’m one of those people who likes to leave nothing on the table when it comes to optimising the digital supply chain. My degree and thirty year career is in IT and I was in the “bits are bits” camp, until I heard different. So yes, I have heard different USB cables, which carry an asynchronous digital bitstream that is reclocked in the DAC, make a difference to the sound. To my former self that would have sounded deluded.

However doing everything you can to remove low level electrical noise and reduce jitter does seem to have a positive impact on digital music.

I used an UpTone Audio LPS-1.2 to simultaneously power the Matrix and an ISO REGEN USB reclocker. This power supply really made the two DDC units “sing”.

However as I said in an earlier post the ISO REGEN made a huge positive difference when my source was an Intel NUC and a huge detrimental difference when I introduced the Chord M Scaler in front of my DAC. So no rule seems fixed…

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I am currently doing the 30 day test with Euphony OS on my NUC. I am really enjoying it.
I read this write-up:


And as I already own the Matrix, the Uptone LPS 1.2, and proper cable I am thinking I might as well try the Euphony PTS with 2 TB on it and the Keces P8 powering the Matrix and the PTS. It’s not a lot of money now that I have the gear I already have. But the Auralic Aries G1 and G2, not to mention the Lumin U1 make me curious. I am testing a G1 right now and it is very easy to like.
My NUC sounds so good with and without Euphony that I wonder if the difference is going to be all that noticeable. But hey, swap out two components every week for some new shiny object until the wife shoots me. It’s all sounding so good right now.

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Ya - im in the market looking for a good source option myself.
I am getting the Zenith III tomorrow to try out. I did try a SoTM switch - frankly in my system i could not hear any SQ improvements.
Id love to hear of someone has auditioned the Zenith vs Melco vs Lumin U1 (mini)
I think any of those options will warrant the matrix to go to I2s.

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I run my Zenith 2 into a matrix with a Cardas USB and use a WireWorld Starlight HDMI to the DS. I power the Matrix with an iFi linear supply and am quite happy. I have run Roon directly and using the Squeeze server option in the Innuos. I prefer the LMS server sonically, but it is buggy.

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+1 for Zen Mini Mk3 + LPSU.

I was lookig to build an audiophile quality min pc/server & after much research, to’ing & fro’ing I decided that I couldn’t actually build a dedicated music server for much less & I then take all the risks.

I did end up buying it’s matching LPSU which did take the price over $2K but…it’s been a revelation & the system I was running prior wasn’t too shabby.

It’s just a lot more musical, bass is more defined, sound doesn’t have that high frequency hash associated with digital music & in a head to head Vs my PS Audio transport, it was a clear winner!

Cheers
Matt

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ive been listening to the zenith for the past 3 days. My basis of comparison is the ds bridgeII with a SotM dbCL7 ethernet cable.
I find the zenith to be a lot more laid back vs the bridge set up to be more warm and more timber.
The zenith has a sense of space that works really well in some songs and doesnt in some other songs.

Im at a point where I want to love the zenith but at 4k its not an outright winner. Im letting it run hoping the mundorf capacitors shine - although the unit is fully burned in.

Im very curios if anyone has compared the innuos to the other suspects - u1 mini, melco and the auralic contenders.

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For my Zen mk3 it took long time to burn in and getting good sound out of it took a little experiment with cables and Matrix x spdif 2. My problem was that i felt it sounded dark and slow at first. Also not so revealing,a bit muddy.

That was strange because Darko review said it has very good musical flow and ease. I did not find those parameters.

Now it sounds decent but it took time and effort. Hfc reveal pc,Inakustik usb to Matrix driven by lps 1.2 with silver dc cables from Zenwave and Kimber hd29 i2s hdmi to dsd. And Aqvox switch lps 1.2 powered with SPC cat cable to Innuos.

For now that is. Waiting for new gear/cables to play with some more :grin:

Streaming Tidal with Orange Squeeze beats all those Roon options by a large marginal.

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Innuos Zenith Mk III now in the house. Set-up was easy-peasy. Connected to my Metrum Onyx while my DSD Sr burns in at my summer home.

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I am seeking some understanding regarding network audio. I have DSD Sr. Currently accessing Tidal thru my Oppo BDP103D and hear only small differences from same music on my PerfectWave Transport. Tidal control is via Oppo app. on Android phone. Undecided about waiting on PS Audio new streamer, which will be a long difficult stretch financially, or other streamer like the Innuos Zenith mk3, also a stretch but obviously not quite as difficult. Do both of these require other software, such as ROON, to function or will the streamer and a control app be all that is required? Obviously do not have my head wrapped fully around the requirements.

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The Zenith Mk III can use either Roon or its own operating system based on Squeeze box. The choice is yours. My Zenith Mk III is still breaking (12 hours) in so at the moment comparisons on my system are not going to be meaningful. I selected the Innuos for its server capabilities and sound. Streaming was a secondary consideration. I have a large CD library that is ripped to a hard drive so my current focus is on redbook versus oversampled music tracks. Streaming isn’t a priority for now. At some point I may transition to Qobuzz, Tidal or the flavor of the day. When I do stream I use Spotify, wife has had an account for some time, to evaluate music I may be interested in. If there was a firm launch date the PS Audio Server/Streamer may be worth the wait. As far as the present market I preferred the Innuos to Lumin, Aurrender or my Mac Mini. Sound quality and ease of use were the driving factors. I have heard the Innuos Phoenix USB reclocker, which was quite good, albiet at a price, $3,150.

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Thanks for the response. As always, cost gets to be a large part of the decision. I, too, have a fairly large number of CDs but none have been ripped. I suppose I have been waiting on a a ripper that is more or less automatic as I have a dread of the time and effort of indexing them all. After using Tidal for a while now the most frustrating thing about it is the search engine which seems rudimentary and incomplete.I suppose I will wait until I am forced to make a decision. The Oppo is getting glitchy and hanging up requiring unplugging and fresh start to function so I know it is only a matter of time. Meanwhile, enjoy the music!!!

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Wish you best on your journey. Probably best to wait it out until the technology matures further.