Intro to Vinyl

Audio Components
1

I grew up in the era of cassettes and CDs and never really used vinyl but am now realizing how much I missed out on. I had previously tried restoring a cheap turntable which rarely worked well for me and then I 3D printed another turntable that also never worked well but have now decided to spend some money to try and get this right. I am wanting to pick up my first quality turntable and possibly upgrade from my cheap Schiit Mani phono preamp. I really feel like I don’t know much in this area and would love guidance from those who know more. My budget is around $2,500.

Three turntable options that I was drawn to as I have started to look.

Technics SL-1200 seems like a safe bet. I was looking for one used but don’t really know what generation or what to look for.

Linn Sondek LP12 used. These seem to be popular and have some used availability around me. I like how they have upgrade paths but would probably be buying an old basic model in my price range.

I was also looking at the Technics SL-1500SC and was thinking I would upgrade the cartridge. Once benefit is that is comes with a phono stage that should match it well but which I could bypass later if I upgraded. Part of me wants to go new so I don’t need to worry about something being off that I don’t understand but obviously you get less for your money when buying new.

The cartridge front is another mystery to me at this point. I know it is very important, but have heard a lot of different opinions on what is actually important. One person who I consider knowledgeable told me to aim for a boron cantilever as they thought that level tended to consistently represent a high level of cartage. They have deep pockets though and I was unsure if this advice made sense at my level. The cartridges I am seeing with that feature start around $1000 or about 40% of my budget. Maybe that makes sense, but I don’t know.

Three main questions:

Should I simply go with a new turntable as someone who has no good experience setting up turntables?

How much of my budget should I spend on the cartage and are there levels of cartage I should aim for?

How much of the budget towards a phono stage?

Thanks for the guidance.

2

As a novice I would start with the new 1500c and until you are familiar with it’s sound and operation use the built in phono preamp and Ortofon Red Cartridge. As soon as you can I would ditch the Red which is harsh sounding and find a reasonably priced alternative from AT, Grado or several others. As for replacing the internal phono preamp their are multiple reasonably priced good performers from Internet Direct companies like Vista Audio and Darlington Labs. Most importantly buy a solidly built non-tweeky TT with a reasonable resale value like the Technics and go slowly on the upgrades until you are sure this is a direction you really want to go in. Having owned several over the years I am not a belt drive TT fan. The Rega crowd is sure to be along shortly to recommend them.

3

I have an LP-12 and I love it for it’s upgradability. But upgrades are not inexpensive and you need their special rack to do most of the work. I wouldn’t start with one unless you’re a tinkerer with talent.
A good place to noodle around is the Upscale Audio website. They have a very good selection of tables in your price range. It’s a good place to learn.
The Technics are always well built and a good starting point, as are Rega.
At this point, don’t worry about belt vs direct drive, boron cantilevers, etc. Those preferences will bubble up with experience.
I like the idea of replaceable/ upgradeable cantilevers…see Ortofon MM carts. For a starter system in your price range, MM carts can sound surprisingly good.
And your Schiit Mani is excellent at this point. It’s one of those products that delivers way beyond it’s price.
Right now, you don’t know what you don’t know. As time goes on and your knowledge base expands, you’ll be better able to make the right decision when your budget jumps tenfold.

4

My two nickels (remember, Pennie’s are no more). Go with new and from a reputable dealer, preferably local but there are good online ones. It is essential as you begin the vinyl journey that you have confidence your setup is solid and working properly. You want to be able to spend your time immersed in enjoying the music, not in wondering if something is amiss. You want to be able to focus on seeing if vinyl is for you. It will be easy to spend thousands on records rather quickly and what a bummer if you discover after amassing a sizable collection that the annoyance of clicks is too much. $2500 will let you get the level of setup so that defects that are inherent in entry level units will not detract in a major way during your breaki in period—-and I do mean you, not the equipment. As you are new to the medium, I would recommend you stay away from the high end niche frills such as boron cantilevers, not that they are not a step up in sound quality but the SQ increase is small compared to that of the cost. And finally, stay away from individual user recommendations on brands. For example, proper cartridge setup is more important than individual characteristics such as the stylus profile.

5

Like all gear, turntables are a rabbit hole. I’m a casual vinyl listener, with nearly all of my efforts in the CD and streaming baskets. For my simple turntable rig, I have a vintage direct drive Denon with a Grace tonearm hosting a Grado blue with an 8MZ needle replacement. This feeds an ELAC phono pre-amp. I have an old house with wood floors, so I built an isolation table from a slab of gifted-to-me architectural grade MDF and some Visetek microscope isolation feet I got off eBay. This serves my purpose. All was used except the 8MZ needle, and all said and done it was just under $1,000 US dollars. My point to all of this is I’d check the local used market in and around your area. At the local record shop I work at, we recently sold a lovely Phillips 312 with a vintage mid-level AT cartridge for $150. It sounded amazing and was a great bargain for the young customer upgrading from one of the more recent, cheap plastic AT tables. The built-in isolation of the 312 is something to witness. This table was ahead of its time.

On my used table, I got it for $100, but it needed two of the head shell wires re-soldered to the Grace arm, and it needed a replacement DIN cable from the toneaem because the cable got damaged at some point. All easy fixes. Here’s a pic from the day I brought it home. If you’re even remotely handy, the used market is your friend.

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6

I still have some pennies hanging around, so here’s my two cents. If you’re getting into vinyl, having never really done so before, buy a new table. Sure there are great buys to be had on used tables, but unless you know the history of a table and the seller, you run the risk of your first serious foray into turntables turning into a troubleshooting exercise. The SL-1500 is a decent enough table; you could then maybe get a nicer cartridge for it.

As for cartridges, things start getting interesting. Budget needs to be determined, for it and the associated phono stage. Finding the right pivot point balancing the two is easier once the price target is known. I wouldn’t necessarily say that boron cantilevers are a mark of a higher level cart; it can be, but there are great carts with aluminum cantilevers out there, too. Of course you’ve got diamond, ruby, sapphire, even cactus and more to choose from as alternatives. Let’s take it one step at a time.

7

Well, if you go with technics, normally it is a safe bet

1500; 1200; some are semi-automatic, so it mean at the end of the disc, it stop and some bring the tonearm in place.

pawn shop, is a good place to find good deal. Some Hitachi are fun to have, and Old Pioneer 12 with belt, with a bit of suspension.

All the Linn and Systemdeck are bouncy, if you don’t have concrete floor or rack on the wall, and the floor is not tight, it will bounce the tonearm. Even on the wall with air pressure when I close the door it bounce with the draft or air pressure. And they require maintenance, are expensive to maintain top shape, but are the one of the best when all the thing are set up perfectly. But there a law againt them that anoy me in the long run, it’s the gravity law, spring because of the heavy plater, need to be replace 3 - 4 years and them you have to resume again tuneUp.

Project does good entry turntable, as Fluance and U-turn, for 500$ you have something new and very affordable and reliable! and have a phono integrated to if you wish!

If I have to start all over again, I would buy, Project (often they have design turntable); Fluance 82; 83 or top 85 or a U-turn (simple and basic) and if you enjoy that, climb the stair from that start!

For my part, I spend 6 month restoring a Full automatic Kenwood turntable with marble base!

check market place, Us audiomart or canuckaudiomart, for used one.

Also for price, check HiFi Shark, they will show you all available for sale over the world with price tag asked, but the fun part, go the icon that give you last sold one, so you would know current value average value for a turntuble you want to purchase.

And most important, go on forum and ask for help! Also good people to help on those!

feel free to ask question, a tonearm need to be balance, cartridge need to be align and have a specific mass/weitgh and antiskating to perform!

There are also some P-month with all that solved but cartridge are rare for those one, you will end up with a Grado P-mount that is a good cart and change the needle for a silver grado or gold and you will have a good turntable.

Found a beautiful Technics, top of the line from the 70, like that! I put black grado P-mount and then upgrade the stylus for a silver after I need to replace!

Good luck!

8

After a long absence I re-entered the analog world about five years ago. Having a decent digital rig, I wanted to compliment not replace. Friend’s opinions were helpful but all over the place. Nearest dealer is two hours away and the specialize in high end stuff only. Based on previous experience and good reviews I called Upscale Audio. They asked great questions. I told them what my kit consisted of, what my expectations were and budget. They made recommendations which I followed with no regrets. I got the table, tone arm, cartridge and pre-amp. Although I replaced the pre-amp with the Stellar when it went on sale the rest is still in place and works flawlessly. I am not a tinkerer and wanted a set-it-and-forget it setup. They put it all together, tested and tweaked (and sent pictures of the process), packed it super well and shipped it to me. FOR ME, this was the way to go. No regrets or buyer’s remorse.

Upscale tt set up (3)
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9

A lot of excellent advice here. :slight_smile:

10

YOLO​:grin:

Gryphon Siren Phono Stage

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11

Another point worth considering to maximize your entry enjoyment factor is stylus design. Line contact, nude, micro line, etc require much more effort, tools, fussing to sound their best. Elliptical are much more forgiving. An easily set up elliptical can sound better than a less than perfectly adjusted line contact.

12

nice!

13

nice set up

14

Ps Audio, has a good Stellar phonostage, sound good with MC Denon 103!

15

Thanks everyone, I love all the fantastic advice everyone has already given me. I’m excited.

I am local enough to TMRAudio (The Music Room) to pick up items in person and was going to trade in some gear to them, so I have mainly been looking there. They do sell Technics, Mofi, as well as Rega and Clearaudio gear new but I’m leaning in the direction of Technics for their direct drive and durability.

For cartridges, I guess I would be looking in the $400-$800 range. TMR carries Mofi, Rega, Clearaudio, and Hena cartridges new. Does anyone have recommendations in those lines for that price range? Would it make sense to stretch another ~$200+ for that $1K price point where boron cantilevers come into play like was recommended to me earlier or can I be perfectly happy in my range?

Thanks again.

16

As you mention TMR as a local option, and assuming a demo can be arranged I’d head in that direction. Of the brands you mention that they carry Rega is an excellent starter and allows for reasonable upgrades along the way. I’d suggest a new Rega Planar 6 with the Nd5 MM cartridge at $2,295 and a Rega Fono MM phono stage. This route can provide for meaningful upgrades as funds allow. I’ve owned a Rega Planar 8 with the Apheta 3 MC cartridge. Loved it! I have had a VPI Traveller, not recommended, and have a VPI Prime which is beyond your price range. I also have a Linn LP 12 Sondek, with recent upgrades. An excellent turntable, but upgrades these days are unreasonably expensive. Thus I can not recommend Linn. I have a Technics SL-1900 which is relaible and a great back-up. I’d steer clear of used Technics SL-1200 unless you know the table’s history. Many have been abused IME. Also, a turntable with an integral phono preamp can be an easyentry point, if you are serious about upgrading down the road, I’d steer clear of them as upgrades can be complicated.

17

Regarding Cartridge, Hana is known to punch beyond their weight IME. It will depend on what music you listen to a degree, and what phono stage you select. The Hana SL MK II is where their line gets interesting, but considering your budget the $850 price tag maybe pushing things a bit.

18

I was so fun to hear Nagaoka 100 & 200, Good and affordable The pink and the purple one, I am old and sometime numbers are not my best Strength

and Sumiko pearl cartridge also good

Clearaudio, Very good cartridge but sometime pricey!

but don’t forget in cartridge, It’s like a raincoat there’s difference between a spring coat and a winter coat

Anyway you’re a grown-up you get the Idea

how do you recommend recommended find someone who got one and listen to it one or two disc to make sure it suits your taste

enjoy

19

Outta curiosity how much vinyl do you already own? Records are not cheap, new records are pushing $30-40 and the used market prices are also at an all time high…. Does it make sense right now to spend your entire budget on a turntable, cart and pre amp if you only have a hand full of record? I’m not trying to dissuade you, If anything I’d suggest picking up something like the technics 1500c and spend the extra ~$1000 on records. I think you will be more than happy with the 1500c and as other have mentioned it has a pretty straight forward upgrade path.

other great options would be from Rega or ProJect, some at a lower entry point than the 1500c

my two dimes (adjusted for inflation)

20

more important than the price, Only factor that some forget about

Do you have room for storage?

Vinyl require room and storage place after a few few years

They have to be far from heating,

Far from kids (Picture that, Kid put all your vinyl on the floor out of their sleeve and drawing on your vinyl because you said you love your picture disc on the wall so to please you they decide to draw you other vinyl to put on the wall),

Of course dogs and cats (Return to jump on the turntable because it’s the higher place in the room, Cost on the needle)

storage vinyl, when you get 500 or 1000 take a lot of room and the floor need to take a lot of weight!

If you don’t have any Vinyl or any CD, With $2000 you could pay your membership for a good streaming services (20years) and avoid a lot of equipment!

with the money you save, So you could focus on the elephant in the room very good pair of speaker and a very good amplifier and if you still have money as second amplifier to switch from time to time for fun

An Internet radio With over 90,000 station on Internet from all over the world sometime I spend a week just listening radio music on the web and shazam ( for identification)

for myself and for my CD, To save some space for more vinyl I use 4 carousel with 400 CD each And discard the “Joel” case! and put booklets in the photo album for reference! It/hit clean a wall so I could put vinyl on this wall