I have followed this whole thread with interest.
I can’t help thinking of when, a few years back, that David Jenszen decided to end the dealer network and sell direct.
Raised a few eyebrows for like five minutes and then everyone settled into the new status quo and got on with life!
I wonder if this might be the situation with PS Audio in a couple of years time!
David had obviously decided factory direct was the way to go - he is the owner and can take his company in any ways that he sees fit!
One thing I take away from this is that David has great confidence in his product (speakers) and expects a very small number of returns (thought I came across the number once and was extremely small but can’t remember where I saw it!).
I am sure that Paul has a similar confidence in his products.
Hey this could also become a selling point down the track!
I am a PS Audio customer and I am happy.
I will say that the discount have never been a motivator in a lifetime’s worth of HiFi purchases - nice little bonus but never a deal breaker!
These are simply my thoughts and observations - I cast them into this (great big) pot of comments and see where they land!
Keep up the good work Paul and I wish you all the best as you strive to make your company bigger and better.
Bruce
Despite all of the discussion/debate in this thread, I keep coming back to “value.” As audiophiles, we should first and foremost attach value to SOUND QUALITY.
Question #1: As individuals considering PS Audio for your next purchase, does the component in question meet or exceed your minimum specifications for sound quality? If, and only if, the answer is “yes,” then proceed to question #2. Otherwise, assess the current market and identify all other potential equipment vendors with products that fall within your search criteria.
Question #2: If you are completely satisfied with the sound quality of said PSA component, does the price - coupled with the sound quality - cross the “value” threshold where you feel the price attached to that component is reasonable? If the answer is “yes,” then you make an independent, uncompelled decision to purchase. If the answer to this question is “no,” then you move on to the next equipment vendor as stated in question #1.
At the end of the day there are a plethora of equipment manufacturers of every type of component we as enthusiasts could ever need. If PSA does not check all the boxes, then move on. Feeling victimized because you can’t achieve a “50 cents on the dollar” purchase of new equipment addresses only 50 percent of factors relative to a high-end audio purchase decision. You want a heavy discount but what about sound quality?
Sound quality equal, If you can purchase a component at 50-60% less than the same component type from PSA, why would you not just purchase said item from the competing company? We all want everything for nothing, but we also can’t expect to have everything we want all the time. PSA has great equipment but you as a customer must establish your “value” equation and only make decisions that “add up.” If PSA does not factor into this equation, then seek another vendor.
I think @stevensegal mentioned it earlier, it is very “depressing” to read that at overseas we pay more than US msrp. I thought my dealer gave me a Nice and reasonable discount of EUR 1800 compared to EUR 2055 list price for a SGCD. Still US$ 2000 (and I get the transport + customs charges). I got the unit delivered 3 weeks later and the unit was advertised by another dealer for EUR 1550, and now I read that it seems rather the norm to buy at 40-50% off.
Many on this thread should really feel privileged, but please realize that customers paying prices as intended by the manufacturer feel ripped off, and the likelihood of coming back or ever paying what the manufacturer thinks he deserves becomes unlikely. So that deep discount business is poor business.
And off course to everybody who got the discounts, no offense, good negotiation, and enjoy your music and systems.
I’m still holding my tongue on what I ultimately think about this, but how do you know it’s a big deal? How do the so called apologists know it’s not?
All of this certain talk about uncertain events is starting to feel like it’s approaching the silliness of “average Joe’s” speaking with authority about politics. (Do not respond to this with a political comment, PLEASE. At least not publicly).
I follow this community because it’s the first I’ve seen that seemed immune to the typical sort of online absolutism that would never fly in
person. I’m not saying we’ve crossed the line to the average site… But I’m afraid of how close we are getting lately…
Speed-racer: this isn’t meant to single you out by any means… Your comment tipped my scale, but it wasn’t the only weight sitting on it.
So I checked the Stellar GC DAC UK price and it is down to £1,200, about €1,300. Excluding the sales tax the UK price is £1,000, about $1,200, but the PSA direct price is $1,700. So it is being sold a lot cheaper by a main dealer in the UK than direct by PSA in the USA.
Can you see how I feel ripped off, paying EUR 1800, not because I think my dealer or PS Audio don’t deserve what I paid, but why do I need to pay so much more, I bought mine just in May this year, when apparently they seem to earn enough too if it’s sold for much less.
That is why I trust the model PS Audio starts utilizing in the US will benefit everybody on the long term. Just hope it’ll roll out over here soon. I know Paul said it’s not going to happen (yet, my 2 cents, extra).
Public: " Will you continue to give as high as 50% discounts?!
Paul: “We will continue to offer 30% trade ins.”
Public: “But will you offer 50%?!”
Paul: “We think a 30% trade in program is fair and we will continue it.”
Public: " Why won’t Paul answer??!!’
I think the answer is clear. There will be no price discounting that emulates what U.S. dealers were willing to offer. Instead, PSA will accept trade-ins for up to 30% discount off of MSRP.
Good, bad, or otherwise, this has been made clear.
The question now is, are you still willing to patronize PSA audio? This is an individual question that harkens back to my prior post. Nobody has to like it or agree with it, but it seems the way it is. If you accept, you purchase. If you disagree, then you spend your hard earned money elsewhere. It is the “value” threshold that is a combination of sound quality and price and is different for each of us as individual audiophiles. It means nothing to anyone else that you are unwilling to pay retail (or anything less than a 50% discount). Likewise, it should mean nothing to you that everyone else is willing to pay retail (or anything up to a 30% discount).
If in your mind, PSA audio gear is only worth 50% of its MSRP, that is perfectly acceptable. However, to put this in perspective, if you are in the market for a DAC, then you should seek out an equivalent to the DirectStream Sr. DAC from another manufacturer that sells for $3000. If you cannot find an equal to the DirectStream Sr. DAC for $3000 from another manufacturer, that should tell you something. The same logic can be applied to anything PSA sells. The purchase model must incorporate “Sound Quality” AND “Price” in order for you as a consumer to calculate “Value.”
What I also understood between the lines is, that there’s always room to talk in a concrete case…but this is certainly nothing people now should try to get an insurance on in this thread
I really appreciate your ability to articulate and prove my point so well. Thankfully Paul did finally provide a very clear answer and the issue can now be laid to rest.
It is what it is.
The problem is that some people are brand loyal, some aren’t, some buy components, some buy systems, some products demand auditioning, some can be bought on spec, some people read reviews, many don’t, some trust dealers completely, others think they are just chasing the next buck, some customers are price sensitive, others don’t really care or have an overall budget. Whilst we can all decide what is right for us, no one here can juggle all of the factors and decide what is good for PSA.
That was the arrangement between HiDef Lifestyles and PS Audio when I ordered my Stack.
Originally, I was just going to get an SGCD/Preamp and buy ICE Amps from Parts Express and “roll my own”. After pricing the ICE Amps, buying decent looking Chassis plus wires and connectors, I’d only be saving about $1000USD. By going the route of 2x M700’s with the SGCD at $700 off of the list price, it was a no brainer. And I get the Class A Analog Input blocks as a “bonus”. A day after I placed the order, PS Audio had the same deal on their website. I stuck with my Dealer and mentioned the web pricing with the option to trade in used working equipment for additional discounts. They in turn said how’s $300 off of your next purchase with us in lieu of any trades ? I wasn’t about to screw my Dealer and cancel the order. But I could have. Not my style .
Next year I’m on the hunt for a DirectStream Sr. (In black) once the Stack is paid off.
Cool. Maybe they’ll do another promotion similar to the Snowmass deal and you can grab yourself a bargain.
When I look for my stuff I look for systems, tend to be brand loyal to put the system together, for the simple matter of optical and electronic synergy. We do not want a bazillion different boxes in the house, we pay what the dealer asks, if his price seems reasonable but off course do (need) to watch the budget, like most people on this planet do.
Those who don’t need to maybe happy not to worry about this and that is fine, I make no judgment. But I see those on this forum that have enough and do not want to hear about it and complain that others are complaining, and that is just depressing (at times offensive) to those that need to watch the budget. “Leave us alone and go somewhere else I read a couple of times” that is like telling somebody to f*#~ off and really a poor argument.
I agree with @Steven we all have our issues and reasons. So why not read what others think and be a little more appreciative.
Yes, I agree and understand totally. Change is hard: welcomed by some, shunned by others. We like things the way they are/were (well, some of us anyway).
The thing is we cannot avoid change and the reason for that is called entropy. As we struggle to cling to what worked in the past the world is changing around us. Even if we don’t like it.
We’ve watched the progression of this tsunami change creep in slowly but steadily. Few who are watching can miss the change.
And, the thing with change, is you either get out in front of it or you let it engulf you.
We choose to get out in front of it and lead the charge.
An old friend of mine said that the problem with leading the charge is you risk a lot of arrows in the butt.
He was right.
I apologize that I misread your post and intent. Thanks for clearing that up.
But no, that is not why this move took place and to be honest, we do not believe this will raise additional capital. In fact, quite the opposite. Whenever companies make a big change like this there will be an inevitable dip as the market and
people adjust to the change. Our expectations are that we will have to raise additional capital to cover the slowdown this will inevitably cause.
I acknowledge that sales through dealers have helped grow the market for the company. Absolutely they did and I also recognize and acknowledge that the discounting many of those dealers offered helped any number of end users become PS Audio customers.
You are absolutely correct. I don’t mean to trivialize that.
I think direct sales will be the future of high end audio. Magnepan is a great example of why. In all of New England, there’s ONE Magnepan dealer (an hour+ distance from me), and anyone whose familiar with New England traffic…
I’m a lifelong Maggie fan (bought my first system used from a friend); so, I made the drive and bought a system new in 1998. Thank goodness I don’t change speakers often, but I might if it were possible to audition newer models – I once asked my local dealer why he doesn’t sell Maggies and was told that that one dealer has an exclusive arrangement (dumb on Magnepan’s part). I bought a newer model used without audition a while back.
So, the big trick will be the business of home auditions of speakers as some have already mentioned.
Thank you. I think a big question here that I hadn’t considered and hasn’t been addressed, unless I missed it, is whether or not prices will be dropped soon, to what dealers are currently being charged, or at least substantially. That’s one common justification for going to a direct sales only model. Doing that presumably counteracts much of the effect of such a change.
If you don’t have a dog in the race. Just give it a rest and chill out!
You like locking horns with the resolute Brodic; if only he would climb off that fence and say what he really thinks 
Brodric is spot-on. PSA supplied the UK distributor a new input board for one of my BHK250s – FOC. I was charged £600 pounds to install the board, but reduced to £508 if paid to PayPal “friends and family” … I still have the email !! Decent of him to knock off just over 15% !!! It takes, at most, 10 mins to swap old for new… £50 bucks per minute. Great gig if you can get it. I now only deal directly with PSA.