What will you miss if your dealer/dealers close shop? -
“Absolutely nothing.”
This may be true for you, but to answer with certainty for everyone seems a step too far. I have learned a lot on my own, true. But looking back over fifty years of audio, I don’t think that work as a musician or a recording engineer, or even being involved in the going to “important” yearly audio shows or reading audio rag mags, would have brought me as far as i have been able to go in pursuit of better audio gear in my home without having spent a lot of time at non-commissioned audio salesmen who are as interested in improving audio gear as I have been. You may be different. But I am certain that there was a great deal of value in that relationship. I don’t doubt the quality of advice and service that PS Audio is capable of at their end. It’s not about that for me. It’s also not about price. Something else is sacrificed if serious high end local stores disappear, and for me, I am certain something will be lost that is of great value, and for me, it certainly will be not be “nothing” to lose that. I think it’s wishful thinking to think that navigating this jungle is going to be just as easy without the local high-fidelity retail outlet. Where time and money is of no object, or where manufacturers are willing to deposit trial equipment at your doorstep, there’s no concern about a trial and error strategy. That’s were the jungle is becomes less daunting. But for the vast majority of music lovers who are not high-end manufacturers or reviewers, and who don’t get free gear to audition, and who don’t have an unlimited amount of capital to invest, the discernment of what equipment meets the threshold of compatibility with one’s current home system is going to be increasingly more difficult to navigate this jungle without the local high-end non-commissioned and dedicated salesperson. I believe that’s true even with the experts and dedicated sales advisors at PS Audio. I am casting aspersions on PS Audio. I just don’t see how it could be enough to offset the loss of a good high-end local retailer. And, as said, I certainly wouldn’t say the loss would amount to “nothing.” The watch word here seems to be “Be careful what you wish for!”
I’ve got a minute, so I suppose I’ll answer for Brodric since he can’t answer for himself…
I believe he was indeed answering for himself, and not making a blanket statement for everyone. He hadn’t derived any value from dealers. It doesn’t mean you (or anyone else) hasn’t.
Fair enough I see your point. It would have been sufficient to say that my experiences with audio stores has been radically different than Brodric’s experience has been.
As I made mention earlier in this thread, I enjoy the retail store environment…
Just had another reason for this happen to me this week. My DSJ would not take the bridge update, tried troubleshooting with PSA customer service and it was decided it needed to take a trip to Boulder
Anyway, normally this would have been handled by my dealer and he would’ve given me a loaner DSD or DSJ to take home when i dropped mine off for him to send to PSA
Even though they are of course no longer a PSA dealer he set me up with a demo Esoteric dac to use until my DSJ returns. Of course there is the hope that I fall in lust with the Esoteric while I have it and buy it, but there is certainly no expectations
Not a negative for PSA it’s their company and they are free to run it how they see fit…which I might add has been very successful and has delivered some world class gear at “reasonable” prices along with the vaunted Customer Service apparatus that I just had a great experience with on my bridge issue (RMA and pre-payed FedEx via email + what seemed to be an hour on the phone with Mark)
I will miss my local dealers if/when they are no more, st, that’s where I have my coffee every Friday morning and shoot the st about audio…
-JP
An admittedly snarky question, but hoping that going to direct sales and sidestepping the profit required of dealers: Will the PS Audio pricing come down so that I can afford my upgrade desires?
LOL…but wouldn’t you hope that is a direction they would take? Otherwise, one might assume that this is strictly a profit-driven decision and quite a different impression than what I currently have of PSAudio.
I was reading the latest edition of Gramophone this evening and there was an article by the editor about the move from dealer to direct sales. There were a few column inches devoted to PS Audio, quoting Paul’s comments about the new business model and offering 30 day trials and trade-ins.
The editor then mentioned another company who has just done the same thing, and a very well established company as well. I quote:
Then, while I was still thinking about this move, I came across another example in the form of the Danish company Gato Audio. Like PS Audio, it operates in the high-end space, and yet it has decided to implement what it calls ‘a new direct distribution concept’, as a result of which its prices have fallen by some 40 per cent. For example, one product I was looking at for a review was £4900 and is now €2995 – shipped anywhere in the world, with a 14-day money-back trial period and online support. Sensibly, the UK distributor of that brand has done some renegotiation, with the result that UK customers can’t buy direct from the manufacturer but the prices at which the products sell here have tumbled – to £2995 in the case of that particular product.
So someone has managed to extend the model globally with money-back returns - and reduce prices by 40%. https://www.gato-audio.com/eu/
The €3,000 product is a 250w/8 ohms Roon Ready networked streaming DAC amplifier all-in-one with a proprietary power supply. So taking the Devialet 140 Expert as the benchmark, instead of being £400 more expensive, it’s now £1,500 cheaper. That makes the Gato hugely more competitive.
If and when PSA ever decides to produce an all-in-one Class D integrated then you can compare the value and pricing structure but for now that is not possible. I would also suspect Gato’s market share to be about a tenth of PSA’s if that and more in line with someone like Peachtree who makes similar products sold by Underwood and other box houses. As to how it compares to Devialet take advantage of their trial period and see what you think.
As long as people are willing to pay PSA’s prices, PSA is happy to pocket the dealer markup for themselves. You can buy the equipment or not. Up to you.
PSA, could reduce MSRP by 25% - 30% on all products and grab market share. Or they can keep the unit profit as is (high). I assume their accountants have decided on which is better for them.
As it’s only been a couple of months since the change nobody outside of the front office of PSA knows what the long term plan is and they are under no obligation to say what their plans are until they are ready. As it is now you can do the trade-in, call in on the phone and negotiate or as you said buy from someone else. No shortage of manufacturers or dealers to choose from. I have never paid list price because I pick up the phone or go in and talk to someone who can negotiate.
Hopefully one day PS Audio will make a fully integrated Stellar Class D unit. That’s what many customers want.
A fairer comparison would be to BHK. In the UK the BHK Mono are £15,750 and the BHK Stereo £8,400. Gato do Class A/B 250w/8ohm monoblocks that have been reduced from £12,500 to £8,000, so going from closer to the BHK Mono price to less than the BHK stereo price.
The fact is that now for almost every audio company they are working in a global market. They can list a product online and ship it anywhere. Unfortunately store retail markets work differently. People go on endlessly about getting PS Audio dealer discounts on everything and that the direct prices will therefore cost them more. In the UK and I understand much of Europe there are almost no dealer discounts, if you want cheaper you buy used or ex-demo. The dealers themselves are on much smaller margins.
So from the perspective over here the only reason to cut out the retailer is to be able to offer the prospective customer a better price. Whatever the price, the customer expects excellent customer service from the manufacturer and there is hardly a manufacturer out there that will not deal with customers direct, even when they sell through retailers. This may be by telephone, email or a forum, but they all do it now.
As has been said many times before, the trade-in policy is of no value outside the USA as it doesn’t exist.
The point about the post was more wondering as more companies go direct, how many will price accordingly.
The article actually starts by referring to a long-established Edinburgh dealer that has just build a new $2million out-of-town state of the art store with 8 listening rooms, making audio purchase a destination experience. People travel from far and wide for the experience, by all accounts it’s been very successful. https://hifipig.com/hi-fi-corner-moves-to-new-customer-friendly-premises/
Paul is constantly telling people to go visit PSA. The company is totally open to the public. Why don’t you go visit? Unlike the above company, you’ll get a personal tour and I’m guessing it will be by the company CEO - you don’t get better customer service than that.
I don’t want to go visit a manufacturer. I’ve never been to an audio factory. The closest I ever got was Quad’s base in Huntingdon, which is it service centre and very near me, but they don’t make stuff there. I love Harbeth speakers, they are made 90 minutes away and I would be welcomed for a factory tour, but I’ve not been. So far as I am aware, they don’t have a demo room.
The issue is how and where we buy our audio in the future. I bought my electronics from a store that also stocks the full Harbeth range (a main dealer since Harbeth started in 1977), so I could go to the store and listen to the electronics with the speakers I have at home, in one of the listening rooms similar to my own. They also do home loans.
Even if I made the 10,000 mile round trip to Colorado, and it would be a pleasure to meet Paul, but they could not demo PS Audio electronics with my speakers or do a home loan.
My experience is that it works the other way around, the manufacturers do demo’s at the dealers and I’ve met quite a number of manufacturers that way, and have bought their products. This includes American brands, as well as Harbeth - I’ve been to a couple of Harbeth product launches at the aforementioned store, notably the M40.2.
I bought a PS Audio DAC because I got a home loan, but the guy stopped being a dealer some years ago. I bought regenerator without a home loan as I fancied giving one a try.
Hi-Fi Corner is a dealer, not a manufacturer. It’s right near Edinburgh Airport and you can get there in a few hours from pretty much anywhere in Europe for about $200 or $300 return. Thats the business plan. Plus the restaurants in Edinburgh are fabulous, worth going for The Kitchin alone.
a 20 h trip, single way, door to door, from our European homes to Boulder Colorado. Besides of the fact that such a trip would probably cost as much as the
he mentioned in the first paragraph of his post.
I would probably appreciate the direct sales deals and services that PS Audio offers in the US but they are not available outside the US.
Apparently it’s about 15 hours from London to Denver via Dallas and then an hour on a train to Boulder. Would cost a little over $2,000 economy plus train and taxis. Unfortunately I’m busy this weekend.
Possibly slightly better than a trip we just booked for the spring, flying to Nuuk, the only practical way is to go off in the opposite direction to Copenhagen and get a flight from there. Whilst in Copenhagen maybe I could do a Gato Audio factory tour. Or maybe not.
Yes, you need to drive to the airport, be there approx 3 h early for an intercontinental flight. I have taken a train once in the US 2 x more than an hour delay. so rental cars only when I travel the US. So approx 20 h door to door. But Colorado especially Boulder is beautiful and if you decide to go skiing or mountaineering or visit a concert in the Red Rock theater or need to be there for work, it is worthwhile. But such are the Cotswolds, Midlands, Highlands, Fjords in Norway, Alps you name it.