FWIW, Boot, Wake is correct. I worked for marketing researchers (which Wake is, as I recall) for a big chunk of my career, and the latter way of asking the question is better. Though it is entertaining, the first survey cannot tell you anything meaningful, though it gives that impression. And that is the worst sort of question - which get asked all the time in surveys, so don’t feel bad. They give the impression that you’ve definitely learned something, but it is misleading at best, and betting any money on it is a bad bet.
I feel bad for the PS folks reading this thread. I’m sure this was not an easy decision, and I’m also guessing making it all happen in whatever form will be a significant challenge. As if they didn’t have enough going on! ; ). I mean, you have to make business decisions, and they won’t all be popular. But you can’t crowdsource all of your decisions.
Actually, that’s not a foregone conclusion. If you are a dealer (of any item), inventory is just another form of cash. And if you get into a cash flow crunch, you will “convert” inventory to cash regardless of if there is any profit or loss in the transaction.
I have no idea what PS Audio’s sales policies are or have been in the past. I do know that requiring new dealers to make a minimum level buy is commonplace. The usual reason is "…in order to adequately represent the line at retail… " which is valid, but the practice has been abused by forcing huge minimum buys on retailers in order to force them to burn through their capital to an extent that they can’t afford to take on additional competing lines.
I’ve also learned that salesman for distribution companies (pretty much all of them, not specifically audio) prefer to sell “programs” when they rep a product line, which also results in dealers taking on more inventory than they might be comfortable with.
Not matter how excess inventory finds it’s way into a dealer’s stock room, that excess inventory ultimately results in liquidation, and price is how things are liqiudated.
Another frank word ( a little exaggerated, forgive me) why I think the way PSA goes is a consequent reaction to reality is:
Most (not all) dealers and especially distributors sit on their f**t a****s in their offices waiting for customers to arrive, with the main sales activity in bashing competiting products and just sending review units to magazines every now and then. No online activities, no community build up, no lobby work, no participation within major audio panels etc. etc.
PSA possibly realizes, that they are probably selling and preparing the market much better than any of their partners, even in non US countries.
So as long as the other manufacturers as well as the distribution and dealer chain doesn’t wake up, things go as they must imo. A disruption and a long overdue development.
It seems some feel the “typical dealer discount” so to speak, should be the New Price for all PS Audio products sold Direct, or they’re Out. PS is going to do what they have to do to run their business, and whatever happens happens. Could be good for them and us, or maybe not, depending on your point of view.
I honest to God thought that this was an odd Topic for a thread, as I assumed the answer to the question was, “Yes” or “No” ; )
Because “price” is one of the most important market “signals” relating to product quality, product value, perception of the brand, as well as profitability of participants in the distribution channel, and a lot more. And fair trade and anti-trust laws in the US puts the ultimate control of “price” beyond the reach of the manufacturer, to whom control matters most.
More than a few PhD dissertations have been written on pricing. So as not to highjack the thread, if you want to geek out on the topic, start here:
and then Google topics of “Luxury pricing strategy,” and “Premium pricing strategy.”
Since you moved to Boulder and are now “friends” and at least socialize with PSA staff to some extent, your opinion means little here on this subject. I don’t trust that you are willing to be completely honest with what you say and I don’t know that you aren’t saying what PSA wants said.
Look, getting a discount on PSA products was easy if you looked hard enough. You could easily get $3K off a DSD if you shopped hard. I have no doubt that the retail prices will stay the same. The question will PSA offer discounts occasionally? If they do, people will wait for discounts. Schiit Audio does direct sales and never offers a discount. They do this because they don’t want people waiting for discounts to buy. I know, PSA is not Schiit Audio. But the concept still stands.
If PSA does not change retail prices, it is effectively a price increase and not a small one. At least not for people who know where to get the best discounts currently. There is no way around this conclusion.
Fair enough. This is not something I’ve ever thought about frankly, hence my thinking the Topic was a yes/no question. I was clearly wrong. People are passionate about Pricing. I used to buy speakers from a company called ACI in Wisconsin (still have them for surround rig) which only sold direct. Thought that was great, so I certainly don’t disagree with the model. If PS screws the pricing up, they will eat it, to put it simply. Everyone is free to vote with their currency of choice.
Also get the notion that I might be perceived as biased or shilling for the company. Feel free to take anything I say with that in mind. Frankly it may be best if I recuse myself from this sort of thing. However, I would point out that I sent back my S300 beta (a Darren device), as I didn’t think it was as good as my homemade nCore amp. He knows I won’t pull any punches if it sucks. Similarly I sent back the LANRover, as it didn’t work as well as the less expensive solution I had in place at the time. The only reason I kept my DMP beta was I love the sound and ability to play SACDs…AND the way I use it, it is not particularly inconvenient for me. I completely understand not liking how it functions. I’ve stated that very clearly from day 1 with that thing.
I do seem to find myself defending the company a fair amount, as it seems to me one of the main upshots of their openness policy (the extent of which I don’t particularly agree with) is that folks feel free to nitpick and crap on everything they do, whether they are a customer or not, or the owner of a certain product or product type or not. This is supposed to fun, and it seems to me that’s what they’re about. This is generally an oasis on the internet. People just get so damn serious about everything lately.
Serious, for sure: serious money, serious claims about product performance vs. the competition, serious investment of time and mental energy.
I’ve been involved in a number of enthusiast communities (bass guitar, photography, skiing, etc). I’ve never experienced one that is as OCD as the audio folks. It never ceases to amaze me.
There are other advantages to their business in closing the US dealer channel. Up until now they’ve had various versions of the different products, 100V for Japan, 120V for US, 230V for other markets. Requiring different parts, and additional costs to source and inventory those parts. Reason being for doing that, it insulated international markets from cheaper US market pricing. Now that PS Audio is becoming the single source for US sales, presumably they don’t need to maintain all the extra overheads required for building three different versions of their products and they can now all be built with 100-230V universal power supplies. Only variants now being isolated to the power plants that require different output sockets for different markets.
If this would be the case, way is open to order from oversees in Boulder at campaign prices and pay add. customs fee … still way cheaper than current dealer prices.
My experience is that local dealers will discount to compete with direct importing. NZ dealer prices are much higher than the US. But they also give some local service and warranty support so I’m happy to pay some premium for this. Imagine the return shipping costs (and time) for a P10 between NZ and US.
It would also be reasonable to buy direct less the US sales taxes and only pay duty and sales tax at the receiving end (like most goods).
When I read the posts from disaffected PS Audio owners despondent at the realization their days of buying from bricks & mortar dealers will soon be a thing of the past, is, well, just the norm for me.
I have been a PS Audio customer for 4 years & 7 months and there still isn’t even one dealership in Scotland. When I buy in the UK I have to get PS equipment shipped up to me. When they go faulty, which is such a regular occurrence, the British Leyland of hi-fi - need 3 of everything so I have one working product while the other two are in the shop for repair. FedEx driver Phil is now on my Christmas card list! Of course I have to pay all shipping back and forth between Fife, Scotland and London, and, the added expenditure of insuring the equipment just incase it gets lost or stolen. Even during the warranty breakdowns it costs me money – money for nothing (no free chicks), it’s “never” cost free.
My less than 3 year old BHK250 input board developed a fault so I contacted PS Audio. The President, Jim Laib, reached out to me and arranged that a new input board be sent out ASAP to the UK distributor… One week later the input board arrived in the UK, the distributor contacts me asking that I send the BHK250 Southbound… I contact FedEx and made arrangements and Phil collects – the never-ending journey starts again. One week later I received an email that the BHK250 was repaired and ready to come back up North. ‘How do I want to pay’ …?
The repair bill was £600 ($730)….plus shipping & extra costs I’ve incurred…! “The killer”… If I paid PayPal ‘friends and family’ it would cost £508: I didn’t get a receipt or invoice …!!! PSA’s UK representative !!! A matter of a few weeks later the same fault condition rears its ugly side… After a process of elimination I traced the fault to another input board but now on one of my BHK300s. I contacted the UK distributor but he was so busy he didn’t know when he could look at my sick BHK300… I stripped out the input board from the sickly BHK300 and installed the input board from my other BHK300 and this cured the problem. So the BHK300 input board was indeed faulty…
But what I discovered during the process was how ridiculously easy it is to swap over input boards… My first attempt 10 minutes tops to remove and install… The input board was sent FOC but charged £508 for 10 mins labour… over £500 pounds sterling: 10 mins labour = 50 bucks per minute… Great gig if you can swing it…
I contacted PS Audio and regaled the story to Jim Laib and putting it to Jim “I will not be paying out anymore money because I’ve had enough”. And that I won’t be dealing with the UK distributor again. The redoubtable Jim Laib stepped up to the plate for me and arranged that Jeremy Bretey send me two new input boards FOC… It wasn’t straightforward, when is it ever with PS Audio… There is “much - more” to this story !!! But that’s for another time !!!
If it hadn’t been for Jim Laib I would have been stuffed…
BUT THERE IS SO MUCH WRONG WITH PSA, AND THE SETUP OVERHERE.
I’m on board with this. But if you do this, YOU SHOULD CHARGE LESS FOR YOUR PRODUCTS.
I realize there will be SOME increased cost of bringing support in house, etc. I get that. But the idea that that cost is anywhere near supporting a secondary brick and mortar store with staff and all their overhead and rent and property taxes and inventory, is CRAZY. You simply cannot convince me that the prices of your products should stay the same if you do this.
Again, I’m on board, but if you don’t drop your prices, that is a serious red flag for me.
“…the British Leyland of hi-fi…” Wicked funny. Ouch!
I remember well the British sports cars of the 60’s. Affordable performance for the money. Tons of fun to drive. But … (a mechanic at the time told me that the British drink their beer at room temperature because Lucas makes their refrigerators)
Still, no laughing matter. I hope your luck improves.
But I know the feeling of limited distribution - kind of. Our local spirits purveyor ran out of this year’s edition of Laphroaig Cairdeas before I could pounce…
It is blatantly unconscionable conduct for the UK distributor to charge you such an outrageous repair fee for 10 minutes work when PS Audio sent them the required parts for free. And as for the shonky requested payment method “PayPal friends and family” at a discount, presumably that repair would have disappeared from their books and HM Customs cut of the VAT charged didn’t end up where it should have ended up. If that sort of behavior doesn’t constitute valid grounds to terminate the exclusive distributor agreement then how shonky does a PS rep have to be before it doesn’t fit with PS Audio core values?