My equipment all sits on an audio stand my brother-in-law and I built several years ago. I designed it and he welded the steel. It’s 4.5 feet wide and 32" high. Shelves are MDF and legs are 3" steel, all sand filled and are adjustable for uneven floors. It cost me about $150 for materials, including beer for the brother-in-law. It’s dense, very heavy and seems to provide a solid quiet platform. I tried various devices under the equipment over time but got rid of them as I could discern little or no improvement.
JRiver MC to PS Audio DS/w Bridgell, Simaudio Moon 700i, Tannoy Turnberry GR LE, Hitachi FT-8000 tuner, Nipper
They solve an issue that I had where my wood shelves had a resonant sound when you tapped on them, even with equipment on them. If you tap the side of your DSD you get a solid sound, this is what I wanted my shelves to have so as not to add noise to on the music with reverberations.
They are also great as the bottom is rubber so no slip, the top is smooth and looks great and the edges are stitched so it looks finished. They have a firm sponginess that really does work well to dampen vibrations. I do still have a PS Audio Powerbase under the DSD over the mousepad but I like overdoing vibration control. The best part is that they are 18”w x 16”d so they fit components great. I do turn the pad around so the logo is back left and not visible.
This is the first time I have noticed much attention being paid to isolation given that cables and power cords get a full work out. Will isolation now be listed by posters in their lists of kit?
A demo by Harmonic Resolution Systems (avisolation.com)at my local dealer showed much promise. The demo was limited to Nimbus “pucks” and damping plates on top of components, although they also make isolation bases similar to the PSA power base and racks. The first demo played on a very high end system then pucks were placed under the components and plates on top. Quite an improvement. Then the second demo was limited to plates and pucks under only the power conditioner-also a very noticeable improvement.
The HRS pucks and plates were a noticeable improvement over Black Diamond Racing cones and the “legendary” Goldmund cones.
Isolating the DS Jr. (pucks and plates) was an improvement. Also isolation of power amp, MacMini and power conditioner.
Questions for Ted-(1) was placing the pucks under the granite better than directly under the components as contemplated by HRS; (2) Any thoughts/experience with the damping plates?
I use a “biscuit” (compliant material with no metal cup) between the granite and the shelf and a “puck” (compliant material with a metal cup) under the feet of the device. Sometimes I’d use a puck and a biscuit together three places under a device, but I don’t have an infinite number of HRS thingys. I’d heard a full HRS rack with multiple removable granite plates on compliant feet make a difference in a few systems (in fact I have a few HRS shelves lying around here somewhere), that’s what made me think of just getting some granite for myself.
I’ve heard the dampening plates make a noticeable difference in systems at the local audio club and a few friend’s systems. For some reason I don’t bother in my system.
HRS answered my question about placement of their “pucks”.
The nimbus is designed to be between chassis and structure. Split the chassis in to 4 equal quadrants and then start with Nimbus in center of each quadrant. Adjust Nimbus towards known noise sources such as disk drive and power transformers. Trust your ears for final location. If larger chassis (more than 17" x 17 ") then consider adding fifth unit directly in center of chassis.
My DSJr is on top of a Salamander Synergy stand, which means MDF shelf. As an audiophile, of course, that simply wouldn’t do. I’d used Vibrapods for years under various components, but the last time I did a meaningful comparison (years ago), I determined to my satisfaction that the best of the products I tried at the time were Golden Sound DH Cones (ceramic) with DH Squares (firm but not hard composite pads that include graphite). Since they were on sale at MusicDirect, I had to cave and buy a set.
I installed them exactly as instructed and have to say that it looks kind of cool. I’m also dead positive that it improves the sound quality by several orders of magnitude, or at least a little. Bottom line is that it didn’t cost too much to check a box on my lunacy to-do list.
I’m actually becoming more curious about isolation products for my speakers (Revel Ultima Studios). They’re on a carpeted concrete floor, sitting on the quite deadly spikes that came with the speakers. I’d always understood that you want the speakers to be rigidly coupled to the most solid floor possible, so that the movement of the larger cones didn’t slightly shake the cabinet and smear the higher frequencies. Based on what I read on the Townshend site, that’s not correct and the better approach is to isolate the speakers from floor-borne vibrations.
It hadn’t occurred to me that could be a problem with a large, poured concrete slab, but I have observed that I can feel thunder through the floor so maybe this has merit. Appreciate any experiences you can share.
jazznut said
Electronics without moving parts like disc spinners or vibration sensible part like tubes should be the least sensible to coupling or isolation feet, so better not to spend too much money on it
One might guess this to be true, but SS benefits at least as much from high quality, effective vibration control as does tube equipment. Tubes are more influenced by large thumps/gross vibrations than is SS, but small vibrations impact both similarly.
</blockquote>
I think you’re right, that with ss it also makes a difference. In my experience drive or tube units mostly had bigger differences though. But when comparing a power amp standing on the floor near the speakers to a position on a base, I’m sure it makes quite a difference.
In my case on the rack differences of ss equipment feet are more subtle because I use very heavy schist bases for all components, which already care for a quiet rest.
I live in a house with pier and beam foundation and a wooden floor and I find decoupling works best. I’ve used three products: the Herbie’s Audio IsoCups, the ORIGINAL VooDoo Cable Iso-Pods (they were cheaper than the current by a lot and had only one bearing), and the Ingress Audio Engineering RollerBearings. I like the VooDoo Cable best, but the other two work really well too. The VooDoo would be hard to find, the Herbie’s and Ingress are still being made.
jazznut said
In my case on the rack differences of ss equipment feet are more subtle because I use very heavy schist bases for all components, which already care for a quiet rest.
I have all of my equipment on heavy, sophisticated racks. Under these circumstances, tube and SS equipment responds the same to additional vibration control. Keep in mind the bulk of even tube equipment is actually solid state.
On a bouncy floor, tube equipment suffers the most as tubes do not like being jostled. But this is an extreme example and obvious.
I think ss or tube there can be many dependencies which influence this sensibility like how the rack is coupled or decoupled to the floor, how sensible the equipment housing is to vibration, where the rack stands related to the speakers, what kind of floor etc.
I guess everyone has different preconditions and things we hear are mostly valid just for our special situation at the end. Only own listening really helps.
While there are many variables which impact the overall picture, having played with both SS and tube equipment extensively I know SS and tube equipment responds similarly to vibration control under similar conditions other than a bouncy floor. Tubes, and vinyl for that matter, do not handle jouncy well.
Tubes are not delicate flowers with special needs, there is no mystique. After all they are employed in fighter jets and WE 300Bs were used in the transatlantic cable miles under the ocean.
Actually, there are already various types of chip dampers, dampers and treatments for capacitors, and other treatment for SS bits, including for those SS bits living within tube equipment.
You are very free to believe proper vibration control is less effective on, and less beneficial for, SS equipment. As I previously wrote, YMMV.
Face it, we have different views. It happens.
Note, also, your “personal topic” does not control any discussion. If this bit of discourse does not interest you, stop responding, discontinue reading the thread, push your personal topic - whatever works for you.
ELK, neither did I insist that only my personal main topic should be discussed or want to control discussion, nor did I ignore that we have different initial personal views.
Maybe one option also is that you just accept that I really didn’t see any ss dampers yet except maybe a small rubber plate locating two caps and that I just had this opinion initially. So in case ss dampers should be common, you just gave me new information, which is fine for any discussion.
If you expect others to stop argumenting after a certain point of discussion that’s not my problem. I don’t suffer from the „last word syndrome“ generally nor do I just stop posting when everyone has my own initial view on things, do you?
Elk said
Note, also, your “personal topic” does not control any discussion. If this bit of discourse does not interest you, stop responding, discontinue reading the thread, push your personal topic – whatever works for you.
Wow. Do you want to come across as mean and as rude as your post is? I've noticed this kind of attitude in other posts of yours but this one is over the top. This is not a good "look" for you.
I have read all 36 posts. At the end of all this just a maelstrom of convoluted propositions and theories…all getting everyone else to make the same mistakes they made … Then Elk and Jazznut start a spat about nothing !
For DirectStream or any DAC there are always components on the circuit board that are microphonic …small vibration leads to changes in inductance/resistance/capacitance or crystal clock frequency …and this transfers on down the line to become audible as distortion. Apparently tapping on the circuit board can be heard …so more mass in the chassis and more solid racks helps to tamper this.
I did an experiment where I played a fixed frequency sine wave (from JRiver) and had my daughter shake my DAC while being out of sight. With my ear to the speaker cone i tried to discern any wow or flutter in the tone. I changed frequencies, i changed to a square wave. Well, I ‘think’ I may have heard a difference but it was ever so subtle …and who knows if i was truly blind to the ambient DAC-shake noise in the room.
So i believe that putting your DACs on Nordost kones (or whatever) may sound better but I would put my money first on other aspects of your chain.
Try to repeat this experiment with a tube amp or a disc drive
But that’s an unfair comparison…micro vibrations could be a bit different than shaking and music signals could react different than test wave forms. Did you also listen to music during shaking?
Speed Racer said
Wow. Do you want to come across as mean and as rude as your post is?
No, and I am sorry my post comes across this way. My impression is the discussion had reached the point of going nowhere and was going in circles. My hope was to explicitly recognize we have different views, move on, and to avoid reaching the point where jazznut again resorts to calling me ignorant, etc. While this has been avoided, I otherwise failed.
Dirk said
Then Elk and Jazznut start a spat about nothing !
