vortecjr saidYou can't really edit the metadata of an ISO inplace (the metadata is CD Text). AFAIK JRiver doesn't yet support sidecars for SACD ISO metadata. Also I don't know if anything but foobar2000 reads the .xml sidecars that foobar2000 generates for ISOs. MP3tag is great!Ted, there may be one thing worth looking into. I’m not sure that JRiver actually alters the metadata of the .iso files except for it’s own use. As such, if you import the files to another audio application’s library you may lose any changes to the metadata. Also, I’m not aware of a UPNP server for a NAS that supports .iso files.
FYI MP3TAG-v2.59a now supports editing the metadata of .dsf files on a PC. I made a Mac version of MP3TAG-v2.59a and it’s available on my site is anyone is interested.
Jesus R
Ted Smith said Ah there is an import option that's important:
JRiver calls SACD iso’s SACD (for some strange reason )
Paul this is an example of why pinch and zoom is needed . If and when we put up an example it’s just way to small to see . Now when I just quoted it the size got larger to see.
Ok what I just did is touch the image and it enlarged the photo as some site do. This would solve this issue and thanks for the pm
very kind
al
vortecjr saidTed Smith saidtony22 said Thanks al and Ted. To think all this time I've been converting my ISOs to DSF!That’s just why I started this thread - I see the pain people are causing each other by recommending conversions and I wanted people to at least try the raw ISOs. There may be some downside to straight ISOs for some people, but I don’t what it could be.
Ted, there may be one thing worth looking into. I’m not sure that JRiver actually alters the metadata of the .iso files except for it’s own use. As such, if you import the files to another audio application’s library you may lose any changes to the metadata. Also, I’m not aware of a UPNP server for a NAS that supports .iso files.
FYI MP3TAG-v2.59a now supports editing the metadata of .dsf files on a PC. I made a Mac version of MP3TAG-v2.59a and it’s available on my site is anyone is interested.
Jesus R
Jesus, thanks. Can you please post a link to your page where this is available?
Paul McGowan said Jesus, thanks. Can you please post a link to your page where this is available?Here you go:
PC version of mp3tag: Mp3tag - Download
FYI I was asked by the developer of mp3tag to take down the version I ported to Mac…
Jesus R
Windows Version of DFF-to-DSF Converter (free Version):
Converts DSD64 and DSD128 Files into DSF. No Conversion via PCM, no quality loss. It is the same file like the DFF-File, only with another header for saving metadata like Title, Album, Cover and more. MP3TAG, Foobar, JRiver and dbPoweramp can edit the metadata of the DSF Files.
Best regards, Maik
Welcome, Maik!
And thank you!
Earlier this week I wanted to convert the few DFF albums I own to DSF. I googled and I found the hFX converter that Maik mentioned above. As far as I can tell, it works as advertised (I’m not technically adept enough to go digging around in the innards of DFF files
). The lite version does one file at a time, which is fine if you have only a few, and the full version is €10.
I encountered only one small problem: the program tells you that it is converting the file, then flashes a short message when it’s done saying that it’s writing the converted file to disk. When I converted files stored on my Synology NAS with the program installed on a networked Windows machine, it got stuck after writing the file. This did not happen when the DFF file was on the same PC where the program was installed. As far as I can tell, this did not affect the converted file; I just had to quit the program and restart. I was able to edit the metadata on all the converted files and those that I have played so far seem fine.
I had seen mention of playing iso files in a couple of posts but never really understood this. Today I read Ted’s post at the top of this thread and then read some more, both here and elsewhere on the net. This is what I understand so far about iso files:
1) they play gaplessly in foobar and JRiver, and it’s just like playing a CD in a player (you see and can select the separate tracks)
2) splitting them up into separate tracks can be done with appropriate software but sometimes creates clicks or other artifacts
3) you get whatever metadata are included with the original, but you cannot edit these data (normally I add some additional fields such as composer and composition)
4) as of now there is no way to play iso files over an ethernet/UPnP setup without splitting them up
Have I missed anything?
Since I normally play music stored on a NAS with MinimServer through the Bridge, (3) and particularly (4) mean that for me there’s no immediate benefit to working with iso files. (I do have a computer with foobar available but generally don’t use it for playback--although gapless would be helpful for certain albums.) At present I have a two-channel rig. I hope to have a surround system at some point, but that may be quite a ways off since it involves the purchase of a larger house. It does occur to me that if I am going to pay a premium for DSD files, I might as well purchase iso’s when available if they include both stereo and surround mixes (as some of the Pentatone albums do). I would convert the iso’s to separate stereo tracks and archive the originals against the day when I have a multichannel setup.
I’d like to thank Ted for bringing this topic up. It’s always good to understand all the options with this still-new DSD stuff, even though I don’t think I’ll play iso’s directly right now.
magister saidFalse, both foobar2000 and JRiver allow editing of the meta data for any track exactly the same as any other tracks. foobar2000 stores the metadata in sidecar .xml files either next to the .iso or hashed into a metadata directory. JRiver keeps the meta data in it's library so it's not as easily transported to another program.3) you get whatever metadata are included with the original, but you cannot edit these data (normally I add some additional fields such as composer and composition)
magister saidFalse in JRiver. It allows them to be streamed to the bridge just fine (it has a separate DoP flag for each UPnP setup).4) as of now there is no way to play iso files over an ethernet/UPnP setup without splitting them up
1/3 to 1/2 false in foobar2000. AFAIK you’ll need to transcode them to PCM on the fly, but that could be 352.8k.
magister saidI can use JRiver to play iso's via USB or UPnP as well as I can any other file.Since I normally play music stored on a NAS with MinimServer through the Bridge, (3) and particularly (4) mean that for me there’s no immediate benefit to working with iso files. (I do have a computer with foobar available but generally don’t use it for playback--although gapless would be helpful for certain albums.) At present I have a two-channel rig. I hope to have a surround system at some point, but that may be quite a ways off since it involves the purchase of a larger house. It does occur to me that if I am going to pay a premium for DSD files, I might as well purchase iso’s when available if they include both stereo and surround mixes (as some of the Pentatone albums do). I would convert the iso’s to separate stereo tracks and archive the originals against the day when I have a multichannel setup.
I’d like to thank Ted for bringing this topic up. It’s always good to understand all the options with this still-new DSD stuff, even though I don’t think I’ll play iso’s directly right now.
I like foobar2000 much better, but AFAIK it’s UPnP support isn’t as good as JRivers for DSD. But foobar2000 plays .iso files just the same as .dsf, or .dff’s (for better or worse with UPnP)
If you have a computer on the net with the bridge you can use JRiver as a transcoder: i.e. it’s providing the library to the bridge, reading it from the NAS and being controlled by whatever you want.
For all the Mac users out there … just confirming that Audirvana + in playlist mode works fine by just dragging the .ISO file into the playlist window. A+ automatically splits the file into individual tracks.
BitPerfect doesn’t do this atm so the file needs to be converted to .DSF files. Jesus R’s utility works fine for this.
The sound quality from the Directstream on some of these files is simply stunning.
hfx-maik said Windows Version of DFF-to-DSF Converter (free Version):Converts DSD64 and DSD128 Files into DSF. No Conversion via PCM, no quality loss. It is the same file like the DFF-File, only with another header for saving metadata like Title, Album, Cover and more. MP3TAG, Foobar, JRiver and dbPoweramp can edit the metadata of the DSF Files.
Best regards, Maik
Sounds like an interesting alternative to using the Korg software for DFF64 and DFF128 to DSF conversions.
Ted - what about DST files?
How do they differ from dsf, dff or isos?
thanks
crabby said Ted - what about DST files?How do they differ from dsf, dff or isos?
thanks
DST is Direct Stream Transfer, the lossless encoding of DSD. It’s used in multi channel SACDs and optionally used in the stereo section of SACDs as well.
A little over 1/2 of the SACD iso’s I have ripped are in DST instead of the simpler DSD.
Like flac encoding DST is lossless and gets about 2:1 compression. But it works on bits and isn’t very convenient for general purpose processors.
You don’t generally see DST files.
Question for Ted
I have some SACD .ISO rips that contain both Stereo and multi channel files. So 10 tracks = 20 as well as the drive space they all take.
Is there any way to separate the MC tracks so they do not have to take up space on my 2 channel music drive or do I need to split then to dsf to be able to do that?
Nope, the ISO is a unit. But the MC don’t take as much extra space as you might think, they are losslessly compressed and probably are getting 2:1 compression. About 1/2 of my SACDs have their stereo sections compressed and that also takes about 1/2 much space as they would uncompressed.
In my case with many hundred SACDs this is some serious disk space. Still I’m glad that I have kept the MC since I’m getting two more DirectStreams to reconstitute my MC system.
I sort of lied, there are some utilities out there that let you extract dsf or dff’s from ISOs and some utilities that let you build an ISO from separate files. I don’t use them so I’m not a good guide for where to get them or how to use them.
Gordon, Ted-b over at computeraudiophile and Audiocircle is pretty good with those tools that do ISO decomposition and whatnot.
Thanks guys.
Even though space has gotten cheaper It is still somewhat awkward daisy chaining HDs and doing the appropriate backups. At least it is smaller than the cd cases and lps in boxes in the garage. My sweetie sometimes asks “do we need all those boxes”? I usually tell her they are full of x-girlfriend pics to test her Buddhist reactions. She is actually ok with that story as long as they STAY up on the shelf or don’t show up for dinner.
He He
I hope the DS MKII has an SD card reader. They are up to 64gb now and very cheap. By the time we get a MKII they should be even larger capacity.
Perhaps the “Bridge in a Box” could have a card reader. That would be cool.
I like the idea of just playing “music” to upgrade the devices. The needed paths in the DS are too low of bandwidth to be convenient for this purpose, but that doesn’t keep us from thinking about it in new products.
Ted, you should know that any time you mention “new products” around here people will start to speculate wildly and pester you for details, even if there are none to be had.