LanRover issues?


#1

HI,

A few days ago I spoke with Jeremy at PSA. He informed me that the LanRover may have issues with windows 10 machines… Also with JMRC22 and especially the combination of those. I do applaud PSA on their honesty and have been a long time customer. They are one of the few 100% legit companies that takes care of their customers. Even before they buy!

I was wondering if anyone is running it or has run it with this setup without fault? I would really like it but too much hassle if it is a gamble. I know I should trust Jeremy but I just wondered if anyone had it working. Did you have to turn off exclusive access? If so, it is not for me. I also understand the very reason it may not work is that every windows machine is unique. I wonder though if windows 10 even supports this “trick”. it may only have been reliably doable in 7/8.

For USB cleanup duties I am currently running a Sotm tx-USB-Ultra with their sps-1000 LPS. I wonder if the LanRover is better. It is a fraction of the price. It seems to me like the technology is a very novel idea. I can’t be bothered with it if it may not work consistently however.

I would just like to hear from anyone that has had this working with the software I have mentioned.

Thank you,

Rob


#2

Welcome, Rob!


#3

I have same connection issue with 10 but have not researched a fix.


#4

Well I guess Jeremy was right. Obviously he knows. I should not second guess him. For one thing, as I said PSA are honest folks. I cannot risk this. Not worth it.Seriously with my luck it is bound not to work anyways. I have some very high end stuff but I would have liked to listen to the LanRover. Oh well. He said they “may” introduce a new product but there are currently no plans for it. If they ever do and it works with the then current version of windows I will most certainly get it. The idea behind it simply makes sense. Unfortunately by converting protocols I guess windows 10 has an issue. I bet especially with all the updates to windows 10 since the LanRover’s introduction. I have read a lot of issues with Mac too. I would love it if it was no problem but I just do not wish to risk it. Since I know what is probably going to happen. Then, return. Unfortunate. I think at this point what I currently have is the best you can get but at a very steep cost. My DAC does accept Ethernet but strangely the manufacturer prefers USB. No doubt, since it can move more data to it. Which is also very odd(like it is limited to 128DSD). That I find odd since Cat7 has much more bandwidth than USB 3.1. There might be some issue with Ethernet and audio with Windows 10 I do not know about. Perhaps due to Wasapi even though I use ASIO. Well, I guess the good news might be eventually there will be a better option for cleaning up USB. Technology is constantly advancing of course. Right now it is a shame but nothing I can do about it except save myself the Headache.

Thank you guy’s,

Rob


#5

If LANRover does not work for you and you have a short connection to your PC, meaning you don’t need the LAN for remote location, try an UpTone Regen or their new ISO Regen powered by their LPS-1, you can read about it on the UpTone posts on the Computer Audiophile forum.


#6

@gorgon27 - feel free to search for something along the lines of “USB to ethernet converters” or variants. You may find something that works. More money does not equal better performance in this area.

PS was not the first to develop this. I had issues with the LR on Mac, which I did not have (and still don’t) with the device I had months prior to the LR release (I was a beta tester). Don’t get me wrong, love Paul, PS, their products, etc. Buy their stuff!

The upshot of my experience with USB as a means of getting digital audio from one device to another is that it’s (surprisingly - especially considering its wholehearted adoption by the pro audio industry…but that’s just about $) Truly Awful, and rife with issues - which is why things like the LR help.


#7

I may have said this before, but I can only get LR to work from Roon with my Mac Mini by using HQPlayer. That combo sounds great, though HQPlayer is a little quirky with it’s filters, upsampling, etc. I can’t get it to work with the Tidal desktop app with Mac, though.


#8

I was a beta tester too, running an early version of Windows 10 with JRiver 21. It worked in the sense that music always came through, but with my Benchmark Dac2 there was no improvement. In fact it had a slight negative effect.

I just use a Jitterbug for noise filtering. If I was to try anything it would be the new ISO Regen.


#9

Thank you guy’s. My dac’s USB input is Galvanically isolated anyways. I hope PSA will come out with a new product. The idea was a good one I think.


#10

It is a very good idea, the problem is there are no standards for music players. They all deliver music through a USB or whatever Mac used or uses, but how they do it seemed to cause all kinds of problems. Some were correctable by settings, others were never solved.

I’m getting really tired of Windows updates that change my settings. After the last update, the screen stayed on, if I am not digitizing LPs or downloading, I have the screen set to go dark in one minute, and to never go to sleep, both changed. And in sleep, I don’t expect to have to log in again, it changed that. I finally did a Google search to find that setting. There is no reason for an update to do any of that. My old desktop running Vista, never changed settings like those. With Windows 10, I wonder what it is doing that I don’t catch. I don’t like it. A little too much “big brother” for my tastes.


#11

I would have loved to try it. If I was sure it worked flawlessly. Troubleshooting makes me pull out my hair and I am bald!

Mentioned above the Regen ISO, plus the forthcoming IFI IGalvanic which really requires the IUSB 3.0 as well.

The thing is none of these may be better than what I have currently and possibly worse. I would still like to try them. Always looking for the best sound. There must always be better. So long as it is Plug and Play in my case.

As I mentioned My DAC,Ayre QX-5 Twenty is Galvanically isolated. Plus I am using a Audioquest Diamond cable into their jitterbug then into the Sotm USB ultra, powered by Sotm’s LPS. It is high end equipment and sounds very nice. I just imagine it gets even better even though it really does not have to. I could quit while I am ahead :slight_smile: All of these other devices are much less money than what I have but that does not really equate to how they might sound. It is possible there is none better but perhaps I will like something better. You all know how Audiophiles are!

I could just try the Ethernet input but Ayre recommends it only for networking and prefers USB if used as a standalone unit. I would think Ethernet is superior. Apparently not since it can only transfer DSD128. Whereas USB 2.0 can transfer DSD512 and beyond.

For the record I have been a loyal PS Audio consumer for a long time. I have owned or currently own many of their products. I just wanted to point out that it is not like I have not already patronized them. Many times and on big ticket items. I still have a Cullen Modded GCHA which will hold it’s own against Headamps costing 5x as much. They always offer a great value or the best technology. The LanRover could have been. It is a shame.

-Rob


#12
gorgon27 said I could just try the Ethernet input but Ayre recommends i t only for networking and prefers USB if used as a standalone unit. I would think Ethernet is superior. Apparently not since it can only transfer DSD128. Whereas USB 2.0 can transfer DSD512 and beyond.
Hi Rob, aside from the DSD128 limitation of their ethernet input it would be interesting to know from Ayre the reasons why USB is preferred, assuming DSD128 is the most you need.

I wonder if there are other performance or design reasons, that USB is preferred for the QX-5 Twenty

Had you asked them before?

Cheers


#13

Their explanation is it is higher bandwidth for audio usage. For other uses Ethernet is obviously much higher bandwidth. This is obviously evidenced by the dsd128 limitation. Strange but I personally don’t know why. Otherwise USB is just full of noise. Hence the introduction of all of these products to clean it up or isolate it. However on the Ayre and maybe other high end Dacs they are already taking care of that at the Dacs input. They informed me the Dac sees no usb signal or noise beyond the input. It is reclocked and has Galvanic isolation among other things. So i guess one answer is to buy a $15,000+ Dac LOL. I don’t mean to be a jerk at all I just find it stupid that every Dac does not clean it or isolate it since it is sorely needed. A $500 Dac should very well have it implemented IMO. Instead of have to buy these things. It is like the designers did not do the whole job. Again, IMO.


#14

Just because someone puts in a digital isolator doesn’t mean they have isolated an input. Even if they also provide isolated power to the USB processing doesn’t mean the have isolated an input. Digital isolators come in many forms and most actually have problems of their own (e.g. high rate clocks internally, too much capacitance allowing high frequency noise to pass right thru or adding gobs of jitter.) Remember digital isolators aren’t normally built to keep noise out, they are designed to keep large voltages out, something entirely different. In the DS and many DACs there’s precious little jitter or noise in the data after the USB is processed, but merely having a USB signal coming into the box radiates noise thruout the DAC - i.e. it’s not necessarily an isolation problem that isolation chips are designed to help. Not that I’m saying doing good isolation is a bad thing, but (like most things in audio) it’s not a panacea.


#15

Does eliminating the USB cable and using a short, hard adapter help ?


#16

I don’t have direct experience with such an adapter, but that’s a part of the design of the Regen. If you try it with something else (e.g. the LANRover), run a bitperfect test just out of paranoia.


#17

When I called Benchmark with some questions, they told me they designed their USB input in such a way that any add on devices will be of no benefit or offer any improvements.

I still think the Jitterbug removes some noise, what I heard when I was testing it was removal of some glare in the upper midrange. For some reason I am particularly sensitive to that area. That is why I got rid of Kimber 4TC, the original version, years ago.


#18

No offense to PS Audui of course. The DS is a very good Dac in it’s own right. I do think Ayre probably have electronic design down as well. How they implement Galvanic isolation, reclock the signal Etc. I do not know. I do know it does not use bus power. I have no doubt the LanRover may or may not make an improvement. I was unwilling to attempt it once PS Audio’s tech support told me there is a good chance it will have issues with the current version of Windows 10 and Jriver 22. I have no idea if it would make an improvement in my system as I have not tried it. So I cannot comment on that. I wish I got the news it is 100% compatible and I most certainly would have purchased it. I do not think my system is lacking anything but if an improvement is available I am all for it. This was not about if the LanRover sounds good or not but rather was it guaranteed to operate seamlessly and flawlessly with all features I have available As for digital idolators being bad I think one needs to first know exactly what is implemented and how. Then they need to judge for themselves if it sounds good. That includes the LanRover, which in fact may not even be a digital idolator per se.I did find in my case other USB “cleaners” of different types and brands had an negative effect on my sound. That of course is perhaps subjective. Perhaps it is not also. I think it all depends what was already done in the dac in this case and that is a secret of Ayre’s. I do have no doubt that any of these devices may or may not sound good to a given person. Again, that is not what my post was about. It was in fact solely about functional compatibility. Honestly I should not have even asked this ere after I was already informed by PS Audio tech support that it may or may not work. I simply was not willing to take the risk and then undertake the possibility of having to return it.That is all this post was about. Nothing to do with sound quality even hough it went in that direction ultimately. As I said, given the circumstances it was dumb of me to come here second guessing the very people that manufacturer the product. In that regard I must applaud PS Audio for their honesty. That I will give them any day. I have had many dealings with PS audio and one thing I can say without a doubt is that they are a wonderful, stand up company. That in itself is a rarity today in my opinion.


#19

Thanks - I’m just a literal minded fellow and wasn’t trying to criticize, but instead to clarify things. In particular I wasn’t trying to say that the LANRover was a better solution than any particular isolator. I was just reacting to your speculation that putting isolators in every USB product would be a good thing - It wouldn’t as a rule - especially cheap isolators.


#20

That was not an attack on you personally! No offense meant. I do agree with you in fact. I do not know what any specific company does. Many of these things do have a “sound”, good or bad. Others have nothing noticeable to many ears alike. Honestly I feel messing with an industry standard is not always the greatest idea but can be. It all depends. One must just listen and decide if they like it. That is all that really matters?