stevem2 said
You should be able to mount the clone, select it as the start-up disk in System Preferences, and then reboot. If all works as intended you should be fine and you can use Screen Sharing once it's rebooted to double check which system software you're running.
Hmm, good idea.
So, you can mount the clone even though it’s an exact copy of the system disk while running OS X in the normal fashion? I would think so, but I’d like to be sure, so I’d like to check with you on that.
You betcha I’d do a dry-run first, but if it saves me from digging around for the parts required to head the Mini, it’s worth it.
Okay, hoping someone with some Mac knowledge can help me out.
I downloaded the Sierra installation, took about 2 hours. But when I told the installer to go ahead, it said that my hard disk wasn’t formatted in OS X Extended - Journaled format. (This is under 10.9.5 using an internal SSD as my system drive.)
Clearly, I can’t reformat the drive when it’s booted as the system drive, so, I successfully booted off my cloned copy. I now see that I can reformat the SSD drive, but…
BEFORE I do that, how will this affect the installation, and will it work at all?
My concern is that if I reformat the SSD, the downloaded Sierra kit will be gone and I’ll have to start over with the download. But, can I do the download while running the system off the cloned Firewire drive? Wouldn’t the installation go to the Firewire drive and not to the SSD, or will install let me choose which disk to install to, the FW or the to-be-formatted SSD? If I CAN choose the SSD for the new installation and can then boot off of it, then I guess we’re good.
I just need to know if I’m going to find myself in a Catch-22, if I’m not careful.
Very strange. How is your current start-up disk formatted? I’ve never had the situation where the current start-up disk was the wrong format and couldn’t be upgraded without reformatting.
The Sierra installer will download to whichever is the start-up disk when it’s downloaded. If you have already downloaded it on the existing start-up drive, it should be in your Applications folder and you can copy it to the clone drive if you want.
When you run the installer, you select which drive to install it on so it could be the SSD or the clone.
stevem2 said
Very strange. How is your current start-up disk formatted? I've never had the situation where the current start-up disk was the wrong format and couldn't be upgraded without reformatting.
The Sierra installer will download to whichever is the start-up disk when it’s downloaded. If you have already downloaded it on the existing start-up drive, it should be in your Applications folder and you can copy it to the clone drive if you want.
When you run the installer, you select which drive to install it on so it could be the SSD or the clone.
Thanks for the help, stevem2.
I can’t say how the disk came to be formatted that way, and I have little experience with doing this on the Mac. Early versions of Windows, yes. I bought this Mac Mini new and just started loading up the SSD with things. Later, it went to Mojo Audio; I’m not sure if he did anything with the drive. Be that as it may…
In doing some research, I’m wondering if the Recovery utilities (CMD+R on startup) would work. I think that I can probably format the SSD from there, then go back to install a new OS.
The only hitch – still – is can I do that while running Screen Sharing, or will SS get knocked out at some point, rendering me blind to what’s going on? Perhaps I’ll have no choice but to hook up the monitor, keyboard, and mouse. That’s always tricky in its own right, as I have to use the hardware from my main system, and it doesn’t always like to pair.
This is not as easy as one might think, and it won’t be happening today, I’m sure. Even if PS Audio announces a fix to the LANRover situation, I’ll still run into this issue if/when I upgrade to Sierra. Right now, it may not be worth these gyrations if there’s a 50/50 chance that LANRover won’t function.
Rob H. said
Okay, hoping someone with some Mac knowledge can help me out.
I downloaded the Sierra installation, took about 2 hours. But when I told the installer to go ahead, it said that my hard disk wasn’t formatted in OS X Extended - Journaled format. (This is under 10.9.5 using an internal SSD as my system drive.)
Clearly, I can’t reformat the drive when it’s booted as the system drive, so, I successfully booted off my cloned copy. I now see that I can reformat the SSD drive, but…
BEFORE I do that, how will this affect the installation, and will it work at all?
My concern is that if I reformat the SSD, the downloaded Sierra kit will be gone and I’ll have to start over with the download. But, can I do the download while running the system off the cloned Firewire drive? Wouldn’t the installation go to the Firewire drive and not to the SSD, or will install let me choose which disk to install to, the FW or the to-be-formatted SSD? If I CAN choose the SSD for the new installation and can then boot off of it, then I guess we’re good.
I just need to know if I’m going to find myself in a Catch-22, if I’m not careful.
Just freshen your clone, or (if booted from internal SSD) use Finder to copy /Applications/Install macOS Sierra.app to the clone disk. You can run the installer from any attached disk; it doesn’t have to be on the boot drive or even in /Applications.
When you run the installer it will give you the opportunity to select the target disk for the installation. You may have to click on a button to see any external disks, labeled something like ‘Show other disks’ or ‘Show all disks’ (I don’t remember the exact verbiage). If your internal boot disk is called “Macintosh HD”, the installer will show a screen with the icon for a disk with the label “Macintosh HD” beneath it and beneath that should be the button I’m talking about for selecting an alternate destination disk.
So, high-level view of the process:
Freshen your clone disk.
Reboot from the clone disk – OR you can boot in Recovery Mode, which might be faster compared to Firewire.
Run Disk Utility and reformat just the (internal SSD’s) Macintosh HD partition. You don’t need to repartition the entire disk, assuming it’s already a GUID partition and not an MBR partition. You could be using Bootcamp, which I have no direct experience with, and that may require MBR partitioning but that’s just a guess. If there’s no Bootcamp and it’s not a GUID partition, then you’ll want to repartition the disk to make it GUID which you can do at the same time that you reformat Macintosh HD as HFS+ Journaled.
If you weren’t already booted from the clone disk, reboot from it now.
Clone the clone disk back to the internal SSD, unless you’re going to do a clean install in which case skip this step and the next one.
If you’re not doing a clean install, now you can reboot from the internal SSD again before starting the upgrade. (The installer will be able to work faster this way rather than copying the OS files from the Firewire disk to the internal SSD.)
Launch Install macOS Sierra.app and proceed using the defaults offered by the installer (should install to internal SSD, not the clone).
There are opportunities for this simplified process to go sideways, but if all goes well that should basically be it.
You may need a monitor to do what you’re suggesting. After Sierra is installed on a freshly formatted disk it probably won’t have screen sharing turned on until after you import the settings from the clone. I don’t recall what I did the last time I did a clean install but I can easily hook my Mini up to my TV. Still not sure why you would need to do a clean install now as opposed to just installing Sierra over the existing system. I’m at work with no access to my Macs so it’s hard to trouble shoot.
You probably have to format the SSD from the clone rather than the recovery partition. The latter will let you reinstall the system over the existing system (preserves files and settings) but I doubt you can reformat the start-up drive from there.
stevem2 said
Very strange. How is your current start-up disk formatted? I've never had the situation where the current start-up disk was the wrong format and couldn't be upgraded without reformatting.
The Sierra installer will download to whichever is the start-up disk when it’s downloaded. If you have already downloaded it on the existing start-up drive, it should be in your Applications folder and you can copy it to the clone drive if you want.
When you run the installer, you select which drive to install it on so it could be the SSD or the clone.
Thanks for the help, stevem2.
I can’t say how the disk came to be formatted that way, and I have little experience with doing this on the Mac. Early versions of Windows, yes. I bought this Mac Mini new and just started loading up the SSD with things. Later, it went to Mojo Audio; I’m not sure if he did anything with the drive. Be that as it may…
In doing some research, I’m wondering if the Recovery utilities (CMD+R on startup) would work. I think that I can probably format the SSD from there, then go back to install a new OS.
The only hitch – still – is can I do that while running Screen Sharing, or will SS get knocked out at some point, rendering me blind to what’s going on? Perhaps I’ll have no choice but to hook up the monitor, keyboard, and mouse. That’s always tricky in its own right, as I have to use the hardware from my main system, and it doesn’t always like to pair.
This is not as easy as one might think, and it won’t be happening today, I’m sure. Even if PS Audio announces a fix to the LANRover situation, I’ll still run into this issue if/when I upgrade to Sierra. Right now, it may not be worth these gyrations if there’s a 50/50 chance that LANRover won’t function.
The first step of the process, which just copies InstallESD.dmg to a staging area on the target disk, can be done over screen sharing.
The primary stage of the install process has no external network access, so no screen sharing is possible. For an SSD, this stage should take 30-60 minutes (depending on CPU and SSD speeds).
For the final stage of the install process, it’ll walk you through a shorter version of the first-time-setup process (this is called Setup Buddy) some of which includes logging into your iCloud and iTunes App Store accounts (which can be skipped until later, but you have to be in the GUI to do that). I don’t know if this part will work over screen sharing. I wouldn’t be surprised whether it did or didn’t, but if I were you (and had my previous experience with this stuff) I would just hook up a local monitor/keyboard/mouse because it’s going to be a pain without them to figure out what’s going on if/when screen sharing doesn’t work for some reason. You can hassle a little up front, or maybe hassle a lot more later on and perhaps have to redo the whole install again when it gets into an unknown state.
stevem2 said
You may need a monitor to do what you're suggesting. After Sierra is installed on a freshly formatted disk it probably won't have screen sharing turned on until after you import the settings from the clone. I don't recall what I did the last time I did a clean install but I can easily hook my Mini up to my TV. Still not sure why you would need to do a clean install now as opposed to just installing Sierra over the existing system. I'm at work with no access to my Macs so it's hard to trouble shoot.
You probably have to format the SSD from the clone rather than the recovery partition. The latter will let you reinstall the system over the existing system (preserves files and settings) but I doubt you can reformat the start-up drive from there.
Correct, after a clean install you have to run through the full Setup Buddy process which includes creating your login account again and screen sharing is turned off by default so local KVM is needed for a clean install.
He can’t install Sierra over the existing system because the partition is formatted with the wrong filesystem settings. He doesn’t want to install over the system installed on the clone disk since that’s his fallback position.
In your last paragraph, you’re conflating re-partitioning with reformatting. You can definitely reformat Macintosh HD from recovery mode; you can’t repartition the entire disk because you’re booted from it. You can boot into Network Recovery mode where it’ll download the recovery OS from the App Store (assuming you have internet access), and from there you can repartition and reformat the internal SSD.
Man, you guys are great! Thanks for all the help. I realize that it’s a bit off-topic, but hopefully others will find it as useful as I have, and it IS germane to Sierra and the LANRover.
My current thinking is to hold off for a bit until we hear from PS Audio about any known, widespread issues and their solutions to the Sierra <-> LANRover issue. My intention today was to test out Sierra and the LANRover if it was easy to do. Clearly, between the need for reformatting the SSD and the headless operation, I have to work my way through this carefully.
On that note, when and if I upgrade, I will do it hooked to a monitor, mouse and keyboard.
As to the discussion, I’m not going to be running bootcamp, and I don’t need any partitions on the SSD. I just keep one, main partition for the system, and the system is stripped to the essentials. I don’t do any other activity on this Mini, and all music is on an external FW800 drive.
What is this GUID partition you speak of, @jim? Is it necessary given the above?
Thanks again for all the great instruction given here. I’m sure I’ll need to refer to it.
When you reformat you have to choose the GUID format rather than MBR for Mac Start-Up disks. That should be the default (and what you have currently as your Start-Up disk). MBR is for the Windows world (Macs can read from and write to some MBR disks, such as most USB sticks, but not boot from them).
Sierra runs fine with the Lan Rover the issues that are resident in Sierra are all present in El Capitan as well, they aren’t related to the OS. PS has said that the Lan Rover isn’t playing friendly with certain newer Macs and PCs (Late Models). At least that was my understanding in the phone calls with them. All of the issues can be resolved with tweaks with the exception of ROON over USB and Amarra over USB, so if those are working for you with the Lan Rover in El Capitan you should have no problem in Sierra. However, your upgrade situation sounds like it’s going to be a royal pain, I’d try to borrow or find a monitor from another computer, it would sure make things a lot easier!
Rob H. said
Man, you guys are great! Thanks for all the help. I realize that it's a bit off-topic, but hopefully others will find it as useful as I have, and it IS germane to Sierra and the LANRover.
My current thinking is to hold off for a bit until we hear from PS Audio about any known, widespread issues and their solutions to the Sierra LANRover issue. My intention today was to test out Sierra and the LANRover if it was easy to do. Clearly, between the need for reformatting the SSD and the headless operation, I have to work my way through this carefully.
On that note, when and if I upgrade, I will do it hooked to a monitor, mouse and keyboard.
As to the discussion, I’m not going to be running bootcamp, and I don’t need any partitions on the SSD. I just keep one, main partition for the system, and the system is stripped to the essentials. I don’t do any other activity on this Mini, and all music is on an external FW800 drive.
What is this GUID partition you speak of, @jim? Is it necessary given the above?
Thanks again for all the great instruction given here. I’m sure I’ll need to refer to it.
I only mentioned MBR in case you were running Bootcamp for some reason (BC allows booting/running Windows on Mac hardware). If you aren’t doing that, and it seems like you aren’t, then just make sure when you’re about to reformat the SSD that the partition type is (already) set to GUID before you reformat (you can change both at the same time when not booted from the SSD in any way)… given the odd filesystem it somehow got set up, it’s not unreasonable to suspect that the partition type might also be non-GUID (older Macs could boot from MBR-partitioned disks, but nothing recent does; I’m not sure when that ability finally went away; I don’t recall that you mentioned what model-year this Mac is).
Sierra runs fine with the Lan Rover the issues that are resident in Sierra are all present in El Capitan as well, they aren’t related to the OS. PS has said that the Lan Rover isn’t playing friendly with certain newer Macs and PCs (Late Models). At least that was my understanding in the phone calls with them. All of the issues can be resolved with tweaks with the exception of ROON over USB and Amarra over USB, so if those are working for you with the Lan Rover in El Capitan you should have no problem in Sierra. However, your upgrade situation sounds like it’s going to be a royal pain, I’d try to borrow or find a monitor from another computer, it would sure make things a lot easier!
S
Seth,
As I’ve mentioned a couple of times before, I’m still on Mavericks for the music Mini, not El Capitan. So, until I get an idea of the depth and breadth of these LANRover issues, I’m going to hold off on installing anything.
Hi,
is anyone able to give an update on this issue? I am using a 2013 Mac Mini running El Capitan. Music stored on an external SSD is played over Roon via USB to my PS Audio DS. Now i am considering upgrading to Bridge II or using LANrover.
Does anybody know, if there is a solution for the Roon/LANrover/DS-problem already?
Has any one from PS Audio said anything about this fix, I just tried to run LanRover on a Mac Mini with a PS Audio DAC and Roon and no sound out of my system
Depending on your system’s Os the issue may be a poor handshake between the Mac and the DAC through the LANRover. A remedy for this has been to set the sample rate to a high level such as 192kHz / 24 bit. This is done in the Audio MIDI settings of the Mac. Make these changes with no other software running. Then test playback using iTunes. Make sure that the LANRover is connected in the Direct Connect Configuration. For reference here is a link to the manual:
Be sure you select the code that is appropriate for your DAC. Once up to date you should be able to select the DAC in Roon’s playback menu and hear music. If after trying these steps you cannot get your LANRover to play audio please feel free to reach out to us at:
