LANRover preventing USB audio output on mac to Roon, Tidal, Fidella, and Amarra


#1

I recently upgraded to Mac OS Sierra and could get no audio output to my DS, so per Jeremy at PS Supports suggestion I adjusted the midi settings and got Audrivana and Jriver to work but Roon, Tidal, Fidella, and Amarra still didn’t work. So I rolled back again to OSX El Capitan and noticed the same problems with those exact apps, so I began to revers engineer my system with the changes I made recently until the apps work, and fortunately the first and most recent change fixed all the USB problems, and that was the removal of the Lan Rover. When I tried adding it back the problems re-occurred immediately. I doubt that Tidal, Roon, Amarra, and Fidella will modify their code to support one USB transport device (and since PS Lan Rover device fails on 4 out of 6 OSX programs), I think PS needs to solve this problem. Last time called PS Support Jeremy very coyly told me that I called you for simple problems I could fix on my own or call apple for (like the midi settings), well that’s what support is for when you spend 7,000 USD on a DAC with a bridge, considering my only other calls have been about their P3 regenerator frying 3 Amplifiers immediately upon plugging them in 3 days in a roy (I think self trouble shooting is an insane thing for him to suggest). Anyway when I use any of these applications I need to reboot entirely to get audio working at all via USB and the Lan Rover.

I can revert back to the Iatona USB isolater with the Uptone Regen which is somewhat comparable to the Lan Rover, but lacks the dynamics, so I would greatly prefer to use the Lan Rover if possible, but obviously I cant limit my software and music collection buy 65% to do so.

If anyone else has a Lan Rover and any of these applications please try them and post your results and hardware / software configurations here.

Thank you very much

S


#2

I am not using exclusive mode. Max Bits are both disabled.


#3

Have mine set the same now, the problem seems to be that both Amarra and Roon drop my Audio Midi Settings down to 441000 but when they are at that level my DAC generates no sound through the AMP, any level above that and I can produce sound (using the test configuration and test speakers environment in Audio Midi). It works fine like this without the Lan Rover, and it also works fine in exclusive mode without the Lan Rover, for some reason the Lan Rover doesn’t like 441000 for the sample rate. I assume if you look in audio midi that’s what you’ll see?

Thanks so much for all of your feedback.

Seth


#4

Strange. The DS screen show each appropriate bit rate depending on the file I am playing. I am not having an issue with things resetting to 44.1.


#5

Removed the Lan Rover and put in the Intona and everything works fine in Exclusive mode at every sample rate, will leave the Intona in until someone at PS can help me trouble shoot the issue, the problem seems to be that the Lan Rover won’t allow you to operate in Exclusive mode (it does in Jriver and Audriavana) which I’m okay with, but my particular Lan Rover goes dead silent when the sample rate droops down to 441000 which automatically happens in my ROON and Amarra versions, which appear to be set the same as yours.

I’m using an Audience USB cable for the 1M cable and the short 200 mm cable is a curious cable and I’m using the power supply and Lan cable that was provided with the Lan Rover.

It must just be something with my unit, or some setting on my computer that were missing.

Thanks for your help.

S


#6

Good luck. Maybe call Duncan at PS for some ore help.


#7

Normally I talk to Jeremy but I think he’s just customer service not really technical, I’ll give Duncan a try tomorrow.

Using the Intona now, but boy the Lan Rover sounds better!

S


#8

Thanks again.

S


#9

In my system, MacMini#1 > Roonserver > ethernet > Mac Mini#2 > HQPlayer > Dirac > RoonBridge > USB > LandRover TX > LandRover RX > USB > PSA DSjr. If I set HQP to none in first two boxes, so it’s in pass thru mode, the LandRover passes 44.1 khz just fine. This may mean that RoonBridge handles something different than the straight output from the Roonserver or it’s just better isolated from the RoonBridge.

Food for thought.


#10
sethwarsh said I recently upgraded to Mac OS Sierra and could get no audio output to my DS, so per Jeremy at PS Supports suggestion I adjusted the midi settings and got Audrivana and Jriver to work but Roon, Tidal, Fidella, and Amarra still didn’t work. So I rolled back again to OSX El Capitan
I saw in your other thread that you downgraded to El Cap using Time Machine.

Unfortunately, that’s not what TM is for and the downgrade won’t be complete. This is because TM has a built-in exclusion list that you can neither see nor modify without diving into command-line stuff in Terminal.app. TM’s primary purpose is to back up user files, not the operating system itself (although some of the OS files do get copied because not all user-modified files are stored in your home directory).

It’s more complicated than this, even, and for brevity I won’t get into it as it’s not my point.

To properly downgrade to El Cap, you need to (re-)download the El Capitan installer from the Mac App Store and run through it. This will restore all of the operating system files to their proper state and version. It won’t overwrite any preferences that you’ve set, so if you continue to have problems with AudioMidiSetup it’s most likely due to a related preference stored somewhere. I suspect that your current post-downgrade problem is due to the USB subsystem drivers not actually getting overwritten with the El Cap versions due either to Time Machine excluding them or the additional complications rat-hole I’m avoiding getting into.

It’s possible that you’ll also need to reinstall some or all of your playback applications, but I’m not familiar with most of the ones you’ve been referring to so I can’t say with certainty.

Hope that helps.


#11

I did a fresh install of El Capitan and then just used time Machine to restore settings.

Amarra has replied that this is a known issue with the Midi Settings and PS Audio and PS audio is aware of it

Remember all USB products work at 44100 fine except for the Lan Rover (Intona, Recovery, Regen, Offramp)

Hello Seth, Hi Seth, Thanks for your note and Amarra plays back tracks at their native sample rate unless your hardware does not support that rate, in which case we would down-sample to a rate supported by your device. In our next generation software we will allow up-sampling. PS Audio is aware of this issue, have you contacted them? If you have any other questions or need further assistance regarding this issue, please reply to this email. Best Regards, Sonic Studio Technical Support support@sonicstudio.com Sonic Studio on Facebook

Thank you for the suggestion though, I tried both a time machine install from root (which does re-install the whole OS, it formats the drive), and also re-installing the OS and just restoring a time machine backup.

Thanks again,
Seth

PS Audio has confirmed that they are aware of the issue and have seen a pattern in newer Macs and some newer Windows machines and also specifically at 441000, I’ll update this forum with any feedback I receive from them and any work arounds I receive from the software vendors.

Tidal works if you remove exclusive mode so does Fidella

Roon is still not workable but waiting for feedback from Roonlabs.

Amarra is aware of the problem and they see no solution until their next product release which supports up sampling or until PS fixes the glitch in the Lan Rover.


#12

David,

I have tried setting both to none but it doesn’t work at 44100 via USB with the Lan Rove. PS Audio says they have seen this problem on post 2015 Macs and its a known issue. I prefer USB sound to the bridge because I have a fantastic cable and with the Lan Rover the music has more punch, range and is meatier than over the bridge. My Lan Rover stops all audio output even system audio when Audio MIDI hits 441000, can’t even configure speakers and play test sounds, need to reboot and raise them to anything above 44100. I sincerely appreciate the input though it’s greatly appreciated.

That brings me back to my original question is there anyway to get ROON to not drop Audio MIDI to 44100, which I am still trying to get from ROON. PS Audio has acknowledged an issue with some computers having a problem with the Lan Rover at 4410 and they are working with the manufacturer to come up with a solution to the issue.

Again, thank you all for your help and feedback, it’s greatly appreciated.


#13

I have the same problems with using the LANrover with Amarra for Tidal-no sound output.

Tidal by itself works fine with LR and Amarra adds a nice improvement to Tidal so it is a shame that I have to change the USB cable from the LR to direct to the NuWave DAC in order to play Tidal using the Amarra platform.This is somewhat strange since Tidal runs at 44.1

So any time a program resets the Audio Midi rate down to 44.1 the LR goes silent.

Both PS Audio and SonicStudios are very aware of this. It would seem that the LR needs some kind of tweek to function with a 44.1 setting. I don’t know if PS can do this. I ask the folks at PS if this is tweet is possible and/or underway. It would also seem that other programs like Amarra for Tidal which reset Audio Midi settings would have a difficult time adjusting their platform for a multitude of third party products.

Mark.


#14

I think that PS is working with the developer of the Lan Rover to come up with a solution to the problem. The Lan Rover is supposed to pass the USB 2.0 signal just like an ordinary USB 2.0 cable or extender, something funky is going on with the device when deployed in certain environments (according to PS support it’s limited to certain environments). I expect that they will be able to fix it, because there are numerous USB products like the Intona Industrial USB Galvonizer for example that does relatively the same thing as the Lan Rover (minus the conversion to TCPIP and back to USB), but they will most likely have to provide a firmware update (if it’s physically possible with the device) or a hardware update to address the issue and to make it support the full USB 2.0 protocol. If the device supported the USB 2.0 protocol as intended downsampling and sample rates wouldn’t be an issue, it would be the same as plugging in your USB cable directly. I suspect that PS Audio would update anyones device that was having any issues when and if they come up with a solution. I can’t imagine them not resolving the issue though, they are a world class audiophile company and have some of the best talent in house, they went outside for this one product and I would suspect that they will not settle for a sub par product, they will simply work with the developer of the product until they are able to resolve all of the issues. This was a product that they were very proud of as well, rightfully so, because it sounds great. I really can’t imagine them letting this be an issue where they tell customers we’re sorry this just isn’t going to play friendly for you. I’m confident they will solve the problem, it just may take a few weeks.

S


#15

Thank goodness for forums. I was in the process of bringing my Macs up from Mavericks to Sierra, but I’ll gladly hold off for now, at least on the music Mini.

Count me as one who is watching these threads closely.


#16

The problem is not related to the OS. Sierra is running fine with all apps with the exclusion of Amarra which is having issues due to both the Lan Rover and the OS.

But all other Apps and Streaming services are working fine under Sierra there are just some USB issues that people are experiencing with the Lan Rover, but if they aren’t present in El Capitan they shouldn’t be present in Sierra. Go for the upgrade, you can talk to siri when you’re lonely!


#17
sethmw said The problem is not related to the OS. Sierra is running fine with all apps with the exclusion of Amarra which is having issues due to both the Lan Rover and the OS.

But all other Apps and Streaming services are working fine under Sierra there are just some USB issues that people are experiencing with the Lan Rover, but if they aren’t present in El Capitan they shouldn’t be present in Sierra. Go for the upgrade, you can talk to siri when you’re lonely!


Well, I’m running USB through the LANRover, soooo…

And as mentioned, I’m coming up from Mavericks, not El Capitan, soooo…

And, Siri is a smart-ass, soooo… (Maybe I should rephrase my questions.)

I think what I’ll do is clone my system disk and give it a try. Worst case, I reload the clone back to where it was. Best case, it all works, I’m up to Sierra, and I can add that as a data point to the conversation.

Unless someone yells, “No! Don’t do it!” in the next couple of hours.


#18

A very sensible approach.


#19
stevem2 said A very sensible approach.
Hmmm, perhaps, but it just occurred to me that I run the Mini headless, so I'm not sure how rebooting from the clone would work out. (How can I see what's going on if it's not up and running to invoke Screen Sharing?)

I’ll have to dig out my TV monitor attachments, keyboard, and mouse just to ensure that I don’t get hit with a gotcha. This is the only case where running headless is a pain.


#20

You should be able to mount the clone, select it as the start-up disk in System Preferences, and then reboot. If all works as intended you should be fine and you can use Screen Sharing once it’s rebooted to double check which system software you’re running.