Almost always if a digital audio interface is working correctly you have almost zero data integrity issues. In fact the vast majority of the 2000 or so CDs I ripped had NO errors with a single read. USB simply wouldn’t be viable unless the error rate were essentially zero (you’d have too many retries for disk writes and any retry greatly slows down the average data rate…) This is true for TOSLink, S/PDIF, AES/EBU, etc. as well. In a nominally working system you don’t get any errors (if you don’t believe this just run the Bit Perfect test on a DS - any bit error whatsoever in the data will cause the green checkmark to go away for a little (don’t forget that if you are looping the signal your player may not seamlessly splice the ends but otherwise you shouldn’t see the green checkmark go away.))
Still there are multiple ways a USB cable (and USB hubs, hub power supplies, etc.) that provides a signal with no errors can affect sound in a system. No need to go thru them again here, but I’ll say that the Regen’s design addresses one path that most people don’t think of: saving the transceiver in the final device from having to change it’s signal tuning too many times. Slower rate signals (e.g. I2S, S/PDIF, AES/EBU, …) can work fine without things like active signal conditioning. High rate signals, (say above 1GigHz) can’t really work at all without active signal conditioning: USB 2.0 is sort of in the middle where active signal conditioning can really help, but changing the receiver’s parameters can itself cause spikes on the local power supply - the Regen tries to give a signal that’s consistent enough that that doesn’t need to happen as much and hence the local power may be less polluted than it otherwise would be.
Alex of Uptone asked this on the CA LANRover thread:
“I mentioned the 5VBUS output puzzle. It is highly unlikely that the LANrover is simply passing through the 5V coming into the unit–from its stock wall wart–that would be terrible. But if there is a linear regulator–and they are feeding it only 5V from the external supply–then the 5VBUS output would be less than 5V (even an LDO needs some drop to provide regulation). So perhaps for the VBUS they are using a switching boost converter–again, not so hot. (Another reason why an LPS-1 powered–to preserve isolation–REGEN after a LANrover can be a good thing as the REGEN’s secondary function is providing ultra-clean 5VBUS to DAC/converters that need it.)”
Can you clarify how the LANRover’s 5VBUS output works on the RECEIVER unit?
I’m not involved with the design of the LANRover, but I think Paul addressed these issues elsewhere. FWIW There is wiggle room in the USB spec for the final bus voltages exactly because of this issue (e.g. room for an LDO solution), there are non-LDO power converters that don’t use inductors so they don’t have the typical switching supply EMI and finally there’s nothing inherently bad about even inductor based switching supplies if you have the opportunity to filter the output and have some distance or physical isolation between the switcher and the point of use of the power… Of course one can screw all of this up and easily make a lot of noise, but obviously the LANRover and the Regen aren’t doing that.
It’s counter productive to keep pitting two manufacturers against each other, especially when each freely admits that they are just speculating about the other. If you don’t trust either to have made good technical decisions buy from someone else.
Apologies if it looks like I’m pitting both manufacturers against each other - I’m actually interested in the combination of both products. Respectfully, not sure why you are assuming I don’t trust the technical decisions made, when I’ve only asked questions, I’ve not made one assumption?
And I’m an owner of products of both companies (and thus by default a fan of both).
As you said earlier, they’re not the same product overall, so it makes no sense to compare at a high level, but one can talk about individual features (I thought)
These are just questions to understand how they work, so apologies if this comes across as offensive. As one company freely admitted they were just speculating, I thought what better way to find out than just to ask the other company.
Apologies if that is out of order - just questions from a supporter of both companies.
Paul, just from a technical perspective about the LANRover only, can you kindly share how the LANRover provides the 5V VBUS power for Dac’s that need it?
Is it direct from the wall wart? Or a switching boost converter? Or another way
Appreciate your help in understanding this great device !
Once again, just asking out of general interest in understanding the product - not asking to be a smart a$$
An update, I now have the LANRover for a home loan/trial !
Here it is in action with my Sennheiser HD800S for my desktop setup and what an incredible upgrade it makes. With the Dac plugged directly into a powered hub the sound wasn’t as lively - it seemed more dull.
Suddenly I know have the details I’ve heard in my DSD Snr with Bridge II (Roon), in my headphone/desktop setup.
To be honest I can’t imagine (or afford) any USB conditioning device between the RECEIVER unit and Dac.
I have a cheap iFi iDefender 3.0 there to block groundloops and to inject 5V battery power for the 5V VBUS to the Dac. Actually that power bank has 2 USB outputs, so when I get a 2.1mm to 1.7mm adapter, I can block all groundloops between the RECEIVER unit and Dac.
The power bank and iFi iDefender3.0 don’t cost much in comparison to the LANRover (and a lot of other USB conditioning devices) so I think they’re nice upgrades to be able to block groundloops and leakage currents going to the Dac.
As a fan (and owner), I would love to understand how the 5V VBUS power get’s delivered to the Dac, from the 5Vdc wall wart input.
Why? So I can get rid of the iDefender3.0 if I can ! But would love to understand the ‘how’ part if you can kindly share Paul @adminpaul
Is it direct from the wall wart? Or a switching boost converter? Or another way. If it’s direct from the wall wart I’m good with that because right now with the iFi iDefender3.0 the 5VBUS is battery supplied. I can just use the battery power with the RECEIVER unit and not worry about the iFi in this case.
Paul, just from a technical perspective about the LANRover only, can you kindly share how the LANRover provides the 5V VBUS power for Dac’s that need it?
Is it direct from the wall wart? Or a switching boost converter? Or another way
Appreciate your help in understanding this great device !
Once again, just asking out of general interest in understanding the product - not asking to be a smart a$$
Cheers!
The wall wart supplies higher voltages and the LANRover board, which it powers, has a separate linear regulator onboard for the vbus. No need for a switching boost converter when what you’re doing is actually regulating the voltage down to 5V. That’s at least my understanding. I’ll check with the guys to be sure.
The wall wart supplies higher voltages and the LANRover board, which it powers, has a separate linear regulator onboard for the vbus. No need for a switching boost converter when what you’re doing is actually regulating the voltage down to 5V. That’s at least my understanding. I’ll check with the guys to be sure.
Cheers Paul, that would be greatly appreciated. Did I mention it's sounding fantastic
Btw, just looked at the wall wart and it says it outputs 5Vdc.
The wall wart supplies higher voltages and the LANRover board, which it powers, has a separate linear regulator onboard for the vbus. No need for a switching boost converter when what you’re doing is actually regulating the voltage down to 5V. That’s at least my understanding. I’ll check with the guys to be sure.
Howdy Paul
Were you able to get an explanation yesterday from the lads about how the 5V VBUS power is produced from the 5V wall wart?
Ok, sorry, took me a while. I was incorrect. There is no separate linear regulator on the board. The wall wart itself supplies +5V (and it is an SMPS). The vbus is filtered with a cap and ferrite bead, but not as clean an output as one might get with a linear regulator, battery or external supply.
Absolutely not a problem Paul. Greatly appreciate you following up.
That’s the VBUS.
What about the 5V to 3.3V regulator? Is that a linear regulator or switching? When you said there’s no linear regulator on the board was that referring to only the vbus or also 5V to 3.3V?
