http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=129410.20
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=129410.40
The listener thought the room sounded like ‘mud.’
Here’s some more… thinks highly of the Sprout…
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/primer-rocky-mountain-audio-fest-2014/
Paul, the system may have been unchanged but IMO it sounded its best on Sunday. Just as did the Lansche, Sony/Pass, and some other rooms. Of course I have no idea if this has any bearing on these other comments.
I thought the system didn’t sound that great at all on setup day, but on the first day it was significantly better and got “more better” each day.
Interesting. Thanks for sending over the audio circle comments. Ted mentioned to me some folks thought the system sounded muddy and there you can read it. Contrast those comments with the ‘best in show’ comments we got a lot of and it’s really confusing as to what the general consensus was.
The one thing I was unhappy with was the bass amp. Instead of two PerfectWave Power Amplifiers of Bascom design, one for the top end and one for the bass, we had to substitute the bass amp when the proto died at the last minute. The amp we replaced it with was definitely muddy. That could have contributed to the sound.
Interesting that so many people thought it sounded best on the last day. I wonder what would cause that. I don’t think I noticed much difference, but then being in the room constantly and hearing the same music over and over again …
Paul McGowan saidInteresting that so many people thought it sounded best on the last day. I wonder what would cause that. I don’t think I noticed much difference, but then being in the room constantly and hearing the same music over and over again …
Not from me!
Given the new amps and speakers, how much play mileage was on them when initially set up to play? Even a well run in system can take time to settle after a cold (unplugged) move.
Apparently not enough. 
Hey, prototypes fail. It happens. Don’t beat yourself up over it. You did what anyone could do: put in a substitute and go on with the show.
Note, however, that some of the harsher criticism came from folks that had unrealistic demands, note from page 3 of the audiocircle comments:
It occurs to me that if a manufacturer of electronics is attempting to show case their electronics in a consumer demo environment, it would be wise to use speakers which both are familiar to audiophiles at large, and work well with the electronics being demoed. Using 30 year old speakers, to which only few listeners will be accustomed would be ill advised. A familiar touchstone, like Wilson or Avalon, would make a lot more sense.
So they may have been pre-predjudiced against the room the moment they walked in. Or, who knows, maybe the magnets on the midranges were getting weak like they did on your IRS’. (and for what it’s worth: My local dealer never carried Wilson speakers because the larger models didn’t ‘disappear’ when the music played. So I don’t know what the fuss is all about on Wilsons.)
But it sounds like at least a few guests were willing to place orders, so think of that as a positive sign and to heck with the rest of 'em.
Did you have fun, at least?
–SSW
Here is another take on the RMAF and PS Audio (don’t know if already noted):
http://theaudiotraveler.com/2014/10/16/rmaf-2014-ps-audio-very-natural/
Regards.
Thanks! Very amusing and worth the read.
It was an interesting read. But it begs the question, why? Why use a speaker like the Beta? It’s nothing if not polarizing… I would have thought from a sales and marketing standpoint (and really what else matters in this situation) that using a speaker that would show off the Dac and the Amps to their best advantage would have made much more sense…But hey I could be wrong…
For one thing, I am unaware of another speaker that we could afford that gives the same performance in a large room. Suggestions you would have found better?
Perhaps hind sight, but I think just about any speaker manufacturer might have been proud to showcase with the PSA gear. Perhaps one in the Co. region might even be available for pre show audition?
Paul, we don’t know how much you spent for the Betas. As I recall new they were somewhere between $10-15K. In that range there are a number of current day speakers that maybe wouldn’t have moved the same amount of air, but I suspect could have been as good a match and would have been a touchstone of modern familiarity. In that range? Salk, B&W, Sony, Legacy, Marten, Aerial. Not to say all of these might have been an ideal choice, but I suspect among these there would have been one or two that would have been a proper fit. I’ve heard all of these and more as noted in this range.
Well, one Stereophile reviewer found a pair of Linkwitz 521s powered by Emotiva was the best sound that he heard…
Yes, I heard those. I agree they were very nice sounding, but for purposes of an alternative “what if” for Paul I would go with an “off the shelf” speaker. Still, yes they did sound nice.
I paid $6,500 plus shipping, so let’s call it $7,000. I love those speakers. I think beyond a shadow of a doubt they produced, to my ears, the best sound at the show. That opinion was shared by at least three magazines that were brave enough to print their opinion giving us best sound of the show. Ted isn’t overly fond of them. Nor are a few others I have spoken with, finding them “muddy” with apparently no highs.
I would suggest a couple of things. First off, there’s no loudspeaker system I could have installed at any price that would have everyone listening raving in our favor. Just not going to happen, opinions vary too much. It’s an unrealistic goal. Secondly, the sheer reality, musicality, full range capability, detachment of the sound from the speaker panels, size of image, accuracy of soundstage is extraordinary in those speakers.
It could easily be that what I prize in those speakers most, blinds me to what others despise. I can accept that and am ok with that. When Ted and the others who did not like what they heard, listened to the speakers, they may not find the list I shared above as important as did I - focusing instead on the areas they find important. That’s natural and I completely respect their opinions. Ted’s an excellent listener with a marvelous system at home. Speaker systems are complex in their presentation of sound, in their strengths and weakness.
When Arnie, Bascom and I sit in front of a good pair of loudspeakers like the Betas, and a voice or an instrument is presented to us, our first reaction is “wow, that sounds like they are playing right in the room” or “Perfect, that’s exactly how that should sound”. And when we do that it is most likely at the expense of other factors important to other people. Perhaps it is that we ignore the high frequency information is missing or lower than expected, so focused on how real the other parts of the spectrum are. I don’t know. I am just speculating on the differences good listeners find in systems.
Here’s what I do know. The measured frequency response of the Betas, on and off axis, is flat to within 3dB along the full range of audio, extending beyond 20kHz in one direction and 16Hz in the other. That’s true today as it was true 27 years ago when they were designed. To suggest that a 27 year old loudspeaker is “old” and incapable of providing full range music is simple incorrect. Worse, it assigns characteristics of older people to a mechanical device, just because it’s old. We like to think of things old as not being as good as things new. Just like people. But that view is simply incorrect.
Lastly, and then I’ll get off my Saturday morning soapbox, I have never catered to the crowd and have no intention of starting to now. I would never consider using a speaker in our room simply because it meets other people’s expectations. Anything PS Audio places in the room hopefully meets my own expectations and that’s what matters to me. In the same way, we would never produce a product with the PS Audio name on it to meet some marketing team’s view of what customers might expect in a product. Any product we produce comes from the heart and the passion of the designer. That’s true for any of our designers, Bob, me, Scott, Ted, or Bascom.
DirectStream is a great example. It represents Ted’s personal vision of performance. That his vision is aligned with ours is why he/we chose to put the PS Audio badge on it. Had it not been something we admired, it would never have made it to the stable of products we build and offer for sale. Same can be said of Bascom King’s amplifier, Scott McGowan’s Sprout, my stuff, etc. Call it a personal audio company, where products reflect the personal passion and vision of its designer. My role, as CEO, is to make sure the people, products and services we align ourselves with and offer to our customers represents our worldview of what’s right and what’s wrong when it comes to reproducing music in the home.
At the top of any organization there has to be someone or some group who cares about the final product - that takes it personally in every respect - that cares about the way people are treated, the team that makes it, the end result. If that person or committee makes decisions based on what they believe other people’s expectations are, rather than being true to their own core beliefs, the end result tends to be a watered down wet rag with little to no purpose or vision. Not something we’re interested in.
Until we can find a better pair of speakers that represent music better than the Betas in a show environment, they will remain our traveling standard for shows.
Excellent explanation, Paul.
You also raise a number of significant philosophical points which each audio company/designer must answer as part of creating and releasing a product.
I respect your position on this, Paul. As I said before it’s your call (and always should be). And while in my listening I felt things needed to cook up over the weekend, by Sunday I did honestly feel that this was among the best sounds in the show. I’m very familiar with the IRS line, since during that time in NY there were any number of dealers who had either the Reference or the Beta for demonstration - and of course Infinity was a pretty big player during the Stereophile shows. So these were not unfamiliar to me. Yes, at $7K I’m not sure you’d be able to find anything that could do everything the Betas do. Very few rooms were able to generate an emotional response from me during my listening - this was one of them. I guess the only thing I would offer on the flip side is that (and I do this myself) if there are a number of rooms that coincidentally use the same pair of speakers, it can help the listener even further when thinking about what they have heard in each room.
Paul McGowan saidReminds me of a dear friend of mine - Dick Shahinian. He never does back down from what he thinks is right. Maybe that's why I like your approach.Lastly, and then I’ll get off my Saturday morning soapbox, I have never catered to the crowd and have no intention of starting to now.