No apologies necessary from my perspective.
Carry on.
No apologies necessary from my perspective.
Carry on.
Just to throw another option into the mix. I have an SVS 3000 series sealed version (they make larger ones) and the Bluetooth interface is excellent. I would never buy a subwoofer without a remote interface that allows EQ, level, etc. Having to adjust knobs or up/down buttons on the sub is a non-starter for me.
When I used REW (Room EQ Wizard) with a USB mic to tune the system it really made things relatively easy to make sub adjustments before each frequency sweep.
I’ll get serious again and draw up a list of what I like and don’t like in the subwoofers I’ve listened to or proposed:
REL No 32 (Flagship)
PRO
Defined as the most musical
Fully carbon fiber driver
Medium/large size driver (15")
Good size/speed ratio of the drivers
Flawless lacquered finish with aluminum handles
Possibility of being stacked in racks
Remote control
Presence of high-level input and outputAGAINST
Embarrassing price considering that we are talking about a subwoofer with a single driver and a “simple” CNC machined MDF cabinet (at least I hope so)
Amplifier limited to “only” 1000 watts (considering the cost)
MDF cabinet?
Presence of a Sonus-Faber-like front dust cover: over time they loosen and must be replaced
Single woofer
Assembled in China
M&K Sound X15+ (Flagship)
PRO
DOUBLE driver non-isobaric configuration
DOUBLE driver entirely in carbon fiber
DOUBLE medium/large size driver (2X15")
Good size/speed ratio of the drivers
Great dynamics in HT
THX Dominus certified
THX fixed mode (no need to control the volume)
Less expensive than RELAGAINST
Less suitable for music
Amplifier limited to “only” 700 watts divided into two drivers
Unlacquered finish
MDF cabinet
THX Dominus certified (for many audiophiles this is a problem)
NO DSP, NO remote control (they say it’s not needed)
Made in China
Arendal 1723 SUBWOOFER 2V (Flagship)
PRO
The price is attractive given the possibility of purchasing it directly from the “factory”
DOUBLE driver opposite configuration (zero vibrations)
DOUBLE medium/large size driver (2X13.8")
EXCELLENT size/speed ratio of the drivers
Flawless lacquer finish
HDF cabinet
Great dynamics in HT
The least expensive of the bunch
Presence of the control APP
1200 watts amplifier (even if divided into two drivers)AGAINST
Less suitable for music
Lesser known brand
Made with “love” in China (so they say)
MAGICO A-SUB (“Entry Level”)
PRO
The best cabinet ever made entirely of aluminum (the sub weighs more than 49 kg, 108 lbs)
Vibration-free cabinet
Aluminum drivers
The best driver size/speed ratio (10")
Considering the size of the driver 500 watts are more than enough
Controlled entirely by PC
Made in Northern California (USA)AGAINST
Embarrassing price considering it’s a “simply” 10" sub
NO remote control
Soon I will also include the others, such as the SVS just proposed
In the USA everything is basically marked up to be marked down to protect the intended margins. Depending on the situation a 30% adjustment can be negotiated.
So could I, for example, buy a MAGICO A-SUB for 6,000 euros?
If you haven’t figured it out yet, I’m in love with the aluminum cabinet made by Magico.
Do you think it would be an improvement to have it compared to a cheap MDF/HDF?
If we think that we are willing to pay thousands of euros for steel/titanium spikes, I don’t see why we shouldn’t “invest” some money in the speaker cabinet too.
Am I making a mistake?
Sage advice. I am running two REL 5i subs with Aerial 5T speakers in a rather small den 12’ x 14’ with 10’6" ceilings. The den opens into an L shaped area 9’ x 12’. The 5i accomplish exactly what I desire, fleshing out the bottom end from 48 hz to 36 hz. The only way to know is to experiment within your budget constraints and play with placement. Two subs is my preference. My mistake on the REL 512, as it does not exist. The S/510 is a fine sub.
For the record, I don’t think it’s fair to deride a MDF enclosure as ‘cheap’, implying it is inferior, because Magico goes over the top with an all-aluminum machined enclosure (and a big price tag to match). MDF enclosures can be quite inert, especially with internal bracing. Many companies are now using finite-element modeling to design excellent MDF subwoofer enclosures. I hear zero complaints about the pitch correctness, speed, extension of some of the most highly regarded subwoofers (for music especially) on the market from REL and Rythmik (as examples). There is more than one way to achieve pitch correct, fast bass reinforcement.
That’s a requirement. If you didn’t you wouldn’t be here.
I agree with you, but only partially:
you are right that if an MDF cabinet is well designed, especially if made and cut using CNC, it can be defined as well made and robust but if you place your hand on it, or a glass, for example, you will hear a lot of vibrations come from within.
Differently, a cabinet made with Baltic birch plywood, perhaps with phenolic gluing or in aluminum, will be deaf and almost free of vibrations.
Many times, it happens in the lighter MDF subs, they can walk around the room.
Do you agree with me though that an MDF panel costs much less than an aluminum one?
PS Audio also says in its Aspen, regarding the cabinet:
Sense, rigid, highly damped high-tech composite material made of thermosetting fiberglass resin.
Sturdy base machined from solid aluminum.
Indeed, from a specifications perspective, it is my understanding that engineers may prefer MDF or other types of manufactured wood in lieu of other materials in order to meet a “physical performance” objective.
These have a HT following. Composite fiberglass cabinets.
I am very familiar with JL Audio subwoofers.
I listened to one of their products before buying my SUB25 and I have to say that the little f113 (V1, I haven’t listened to the V2) was quite good.
However, I preferred the Paradigm to that dated version (V1).
Today with the new V2s and above all with the Gotham which features an enhanced version of the amplifier (4,500 watts peak) and double 13.5" JL Audio woofers, in a fiberglass cabinet, well I don’t think that can be desired, at least for me, nothing more!
Too bad it costs, I would say, damn too much.
However, I can say with certainty that it is one of my favorites.
Hi Al,
I just saw your system, really impressive!
Compliments!
What didn’t you like about the JL Audio subwoofers compared to the RELs?
I read that JL Audio subs break very often and that they aren’t reliable, at least that’s what they say on the WEB.
I’ve owned JL Audio subs (two e110 E-Subs). They are no longer in my system because I found I couldn’t integrate them with my mains as well as I can achieve with RELs. They also have a different tonality probably very well suited for HT (which I don’t dabble in at all) but weren’t in the same league as my S/510 REL for pitch accuracy, which I’m quite sensitive to for bass reinforcement. I never had a lick of trouble with them, however. They functioned flawlessly and I was very impressed with the build quality of the units.
I caution about conclusions based on the web. Even including this site. Human nature is such a dissatisfied customer will take to whatever means he has to vent his frustration, yet many thousands of satisfied users quietly enjoy their equipment. Never confuse sparse statistics based on those who vent on the internet as being a true measure of the in-field reliability of any product. It isn’t. Period.
@paul172 owned JL Subs. He thought quite highly of them until he got REL N25s. The decision was easy after that. I have been buying REL for 25 years. I have no interest in other brands. A lot of my audio friends try other brands. I listen to them and when I get home I like what I experience.
I will fully admit my bias to REL. Currently using 2 ReL N31s in a 10m x 10 meter space with MBL 101’s. The N31 performed better than the N25s that were bigger. Rel is always improving their product so the older generation stuff is sold at good discounts.
Thank you very much for this clarification.
You are right and I agree with all the points you highlighted.
Thank you.
Now, everything is very clear.
Thank you and at this point I have to listen to a REL.
Other useful information.
Thanks, guys keep it up.
Taking into account a possible future setup of the system with a double subwoofer, which REL would you choose and why?
No. 31 or No. 32?