I believe it is the same device. I believe I said Octave Streamer earlier, but we were talking about streamers. I believe PS Audio has been referring to it as Octave Server.
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There are going to be at least two different devices. One full service āserverā with internal storage and a another that will be just a Bridge replacement as a streamer but it will be in a separate enclosure instead of inside the DS II. The fact that it will need a separate enclosure and power supply means it will cost quite a bit more than the Bridge II card and if so I would go with a streamer from a company that makes them for a living.
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Important features of the DSDAC are the I2S inputs, unfortunately these are rather proprietary and either a Octave Server/Streamer or a rather complicated construction of Matrix data converter are required to benefit from the I2S inputs of the DSDAC.
The Matrix is complicated as you need:
- extra signal cable
- extra power supply (preferably linear)
- extra power cables to the power supply and from the power supply to the matrix
- add a piece of electronics in the signal path
- waste of space
A straight single HDMI cable from a compatible I2S source seems much more preferable. So I see the advantage of PS Audio Octave devices.
You could consider using USB as interface, but then the DSDAC can be replaced by any other DAC from companies that make them for a living either. I would definitely not add all the Matrix mambo jambo to a EUR 7000 DAC. At that price the USB input better be so good that the matrix is obsolete.
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I think some people think of streamers as a piece of hardware. I just think of them as software. Roon, Audirvana, etc. are streamers, that can be installed on all sorts of hardware, the basic requirements being an internet input, a processor and a digital output. Of course there are loads of streamers in propietary hardware, from the likes of Auralic etc. Every server has an internet input, a processor and a digital output, and have their own streamers (like QMusic on QNAP) or can host others like Roon. The Bridge I and Bridge II provided the ethernet input and presumably some additional processing power. I understood them to be a 3rd party component and so I bought an Auralic Aries Mini instead and used the usb input. I would expect a Bridge III to have a lot of functionality (host the Octave Player streaming software, Roon, uPnP etc.), requiring internal development and ultimately be much more expensive than the Bridge II.
Why? I am curious why you believe this is the way to go.
AudirvĆ£na could have developed to become the number one an alternative to Roon, but has now decided to change from a one off payment to subscription fee.
Well if AudirvĆ£na also has a subscription fee, I can hardly see that software as alternative to Roon.
I am happy with the BluOS that came for free with the NAD has an even wider support base by BlueSound, Dali and Peachtree.
Hope Octave will be financed by the hardware and music service, and that PS Audio does not add on a subscription fee.
Thanks. We have no intention of moving towards a subscription model for Octave.
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Paul, aside from his personal conclusionā¦is there anything wrong with his view on the factual design side? I understood it like that as well so far.
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I am hoping for a bridge type box that will replace and be better sounding than my DCS Network Bridge using I2S.
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In which case Octave with itās presumably uncomplicated support of DSD is a very attractive alternative for Roon for those who admire the PS Audio way of reproducing DSD recorded and/or mastered music.
I will use the M-word John Darko hates so much, but wel recorded/mastered DSD sounds so āmusicalā. It does even when covered to analog again and pressed in vinyl. I know, because I own the Rolling Stones MetaMorphons LP, DSD remastered by nobody less than Gus Skinas.
Apart from the Octave recordins from PS Audio āSkinasā DSD recorded/mastered popular music is not available in Europe as download files.
It woud be really great of Octave could serve those DSD music files all over the world and could d away with this stupid copy rights that prevent enthousiasts from outside the USA to enjoy DSD mastered music.
A little more clarification as to what you are asking me would help. As to multiple Octave devices that as what you and others from the company have said.
I guess Paul meant why you conclude not to buy such a device from PSA.
I know the PS Audio team have done a lot a lot of work on the media tag info side of this project. Definitely real passion employed there.
Myself, I am just looking for a nice sleek aluminium PS Audio streamer with power and ethernet in and I2S out via HDMI and no screen, just a phone or tablet or windows interface to pull music files from my NASā¦ both FLAC and DSF filesā¦ and send them on to my PS Audio GCD. And, yeah, some streaming capability is OK too. I know you want more than just one customer!
The NAD Bluesound interface mentioned is very nice. I do run it in the houseā¦ along with LMSā¦ and to send FLAC to my GCDā¦ while waiting for an Octave. But NAD Bluesound does not do DSD. For DSD Stereo I use an MS-Surface to send DSD to the GCD via USB with Foobar. I also run a Twonky server for DSD separate from / in addition to Plex (for remote) and LMS (for multiroom) servers. Twonky does DSD surround sound too.
That dCS sounds nice, including DSD. But I am a dedicated PS Audio fan and will wait for an Octave device that does not have a disc ripper or its own storage. I am thinking of something in the Stellar design theme, just cut all the physical dimensions in halfā¦ no discs allowed insideā¦ so it can go on top of the P3 without blocking the vents too much.
I have ripped a lot of CDs with a Mac laptop using Appleās portable CD USB transport with the Phile Audio App from the App store. The App can do 7 different types of encodings including FLAC, WAV, and AIFF. It does not do DSD though. I experimented with making files from these 3 best encodings from the same CD just to see if there are any difference in sound quality. What I heard really surprised me. I thought there should be no difference in sound with any of the 3 since all 3 are lossless, and so is the CD itās taken from, but there are some distinct differences.
First, the FLAC was a little more veil than the WAV and AIFF, and the WAV was just a tiny bit worst than AIFF. The AIFF sounded the best, so I did all my rips to AIFF.
Second, the original CD played on my DMP still sounds more clearer and transparent than any of my rips played through my streamer running USB to the DAC.
Third, when I added the tricked out Matrix and ran I2s to the DS, the files now sounded more like the originals, and the DMP sounded like it was playing copies, go figure.
Since the Octave will be going into the DS straight with I2s, I have a feeling files made from a CD will sound better through the Octave than the CD player. Of course that speculation. Weāll have to wait and see.
EDIT: To be fair, I donāt know if FLAC was transferred correctly. There were much less data transferred compared with WAV and AIFF. I think there may be some kind of compression involved with FLAC. WAV and AIFF had exactly the same amount of data transferred.
Iāll give you the counter as to why I actually look for subscriptions now.
I donāt trust a company that builds software with 3rd party dependency who does not charge a subscription. If that 3rd party dependency has a per user cost associated with it (most do at any scale) then Iām really not going to participate in the use of that software without a subscription model.
Why? Few reasons. Software has gotten really complex because users demand a heft of features. That complexity can only be accomplished by integrating 3rd party APIs, licensed data, 3rd party services, etc. Since there is dependency on that 3rd party for your app to function I expect the application developer keeps staff on hand to make such changes. Those changes need to be made at a pace that the app doesnāt fail or take forever to implement a new feature. Those developers cost money.
The 3rd party metadata providers charge for accessing their data. Thatās an ongoing cost.
Integration with 3rd parties ebbs and flows. I expect the application to keep-up with the changing times. That has a cost.
Basicallyā¦ software demands ongoing development. How do you plan to fund that? There are two camps; Pay for it by selling hardware or charge a subscription.
The problem with selling hardware to fund software development is the lifecycle of the hardware is linked to to the pre-funded software development and 3rd party services at time of sale. How long will my purchase keep the software relevant? Thatās not a model I appreciate nor is it user friendly. Iād much rather buy software on a monthly basis (yearly) in support of that software. Of course, nothing stops you from bundling discounted or free first year or lifetime subscriptions to the hardware (Tivo was very successful at doing this). But, a no subscription model really does a disservice to the gear. Eventually that development kitty runs out and customers are forced to buy new (which opens up opportunity to jump vendors). Better to keep the kitty funded and keep the software fresh. Then you can stick to the value in the electronics model youāve always had.
Roon is something like 40+ strong now. I have no idea how you fund a team that large with only hardware sales unless the purchase price is reflecting mostly R&D/pre-funded software development (Linn / Lumin) and/or releasing new product a couple times a year (Sonos does this).
But, of course, Iām just a guy on the Internettubewebs who appreciates paying for the actual cost of things; software included.
Thanks for reading.
I used to own a SGCD and was hoping for a Stellar server as simple as you mention but with internal SSD storage. But the reaction of PS Audio about whether such a device would become available in the Stellar line left too many doubts. The SGCD has been out there with I2S interface (one of the reasons I purchased it) too long. Too long without similarly priced DSD source in a Stellar enclosure whether SACD transport or server / streamer.
The Stellar enclosure design is much better than the Perfect Wave enclosures. Simpler lines, less parts, rugged material and still a sleek and smart look.
But it has been a wait too long, the message from PS Audio is:
- there will never be a Stellar SACD transport (strange because a complete Marantz player with streamer and DAC sells for Stellar price range)
- a Stellar I2S server / streamer is a question mark, but certainly lower on the priority list than a Perfect Wave server / streamer
It raises the question why PS Audio ever started the Stellar range, if you want DSD music you either have to fool around with USB and computer software (still no SACD off course) or fork out EUR 7000 for sources in a high end product range that is far above Stellar (customers) budget.
When the electronics in my SGCD failed after just 1.5 years I gave up on DSD and Stellar and settled with NAD C658 (home office) and M33 (living room). As streaming platform Apple AirPlay and BluOS. Together they stream, best lossy format mastered files music (AAC), Red Book CD (ALAC), PCM up to 24 bit 192 kHz and MQA. Straight from the library I have maintained for so long on a iMac in idle mode. Horror stories about displays causing noise or any other assumptions are debunked. It sounded better than a dedicated BlueSound Vault2 server.
It is a pity about DSD, but DSD files are too hard to find, frustrating copy right issues that even prohibit you to buy them when you finally found them and hardware that is way beyond the budget I can afford.
If none of this is going to be changed, RedBook CD and PCM remain the best Audio standard.
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Yup and thatās exactly what we have coming later this year. Youāve described the entry level Octave streamer quite well. No firm details yet but should be both affordable and sonically excellent. Canāt wait.
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+1 on the Stellar package design.
Oh Fantastic!! I havenāt been following too closely, so Iām surprised and elated that there will be an āentry-levelā Octave Streamer. I anxiously await the purchase!!
CHEERS!
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So entry level Octave Streamer in Stellar chassis = Bridge II replacement in a box, right?
Will something like a matrix to further improve be obsolete for this unit due to the I2S out?