Sorry: One Cannot Please Steven unless you’re Linn, Harbeth, NAIM, or maybe some French company or other. Or whatever Steven currently owns.
The question I have is: Is the goal of your hectoring to end up being able to write at some point in the future, “I told you so!” to the ten people who might be interested, or are you yet another of the crop of PS Forum Public Servants who are compelled to save us unfortunate audiophiles from throwing our money away?
I’ve had a few servers and streamers and I buy them based on specifications. I did not buy Naim for my office years ago because they only supported Tidal, not Qobuz. If you want a server/streamer to play music from a 6TB network library, you won’t buy a streamer that cannot access that library, especially if it can only have up to 4TB of internal storage.
Hence most of my posts have been about functionality, not some jingoistic enterprise.
For what’s it’s worth, my choice of server boiled down to Roon Nucleus (made in USA) or Innuos (made in Portugal). The deal-breaker for Innuos was the power supply. The Roon just has a 19v input and external LPS, Innuos has a high quality mains filter and several separate internal linear power supplies. Otherwise, they are very similar.
So I’ve mainly been asking about specifications, because that’s how I buy and I suspect many other people as well.
Despite agreeing with you generally about USB - otherwise, why is it possible to continually improve upon it with every new fab cable, galvanic isolation, and so on? I’ve long simply LIKED the sound of USB vs. other means of Xfer on a Given Component vs. the other means available For That Component at the time. Can’t entirely explain it. Maybe I just didn’t have the Right Cables:man_shrugging:t2:.
And though I’ve never done comprehensive comparisons (which is nearly impossible to do in a meaningful way), I have used: USB, optical (stereo and 8 channel ADAT), Firewire(s), Thunderbolt(s), AES-EBU, some others I’ve forgotten.
I guess the difference with USB is that due to the ubiquity in both the Pro Audio and Audiophile sphere, a lot of makers have created “fixes” for it, whereas many of the other protocols are what they are, and all you can do is to try different cables.
USB depends as much on the source. I used usb for a number of years, but only from audio-specific servers like Auralic Aries and Aries Mini. I’ve never used a consumer computer. Before usb I used Linn by ethernet and I now use Innuos by ethernet. Innuos also has an optimised usb output with its own LPS, so is apparently very good (I don’t use it). Or you can clean your usb, for example with an Innuos Phoenix.
The only usb cable I’ve ever used is a Chord C that came in the blister packet on a magazine. They retail for $60. I still have it, use it for recording usb output.
Quite a lot of units do this. Sometimes they become 2 boxes, like Antipodes and Innuos Statement, which has a separate box for 8 power supplies. Processing and data buffering are usually split.
@Paul. Does the built in SSD and ripper on the Octave add much cost to the project and do these items potentially add complications to the sound quality? I ask this because I have to believe a lot of the folks that are considering the Octave server already have a ripping and storage system for their electronic physical media. I also am streaming so much on Qobuz and Tidal that I don’t use my physical library much anymore. I can see in the future having no need for any hard drive storage and ripping need and logic would lead one to thinking that eliminating these items in the Octave could enhance sound quality and pricing.
I see you have stated that that the Stellar version will probably not have a ripper and SSD but at a sacrifice in sound quality. What are the drivers of the difference in sound quality between the Octave server and the potential future Stellar Server? Sorry if this is an unfair question on a future product.
@Paul. I am a Roon fanboy (lieftime subscriber) but completely understand why you are probably not going down that route. I am hoping that the Octave interface is as robust or can develop to be as robust as ROON. A UI is like learning a new language so I think Roon users like me need to be patient and learn the Octave system before they make snap judgments. With that said it might be hard for somebody to do a fair comparison of Roon and Octave UI in a 30 day trial period. Becoming fluent in a new UI takes some time. In addition, I have to believe that the initial Octave interface will improve after more feedback from the field over the coming months/years.
I am also thinking of trying a side by side comparison. My current set up is all PS BHK gear being fed by a DS Dac that is being fed via coaxial by an Aurlic G1 ($2700 retail), that is being fed wirelessly by a Baetis Prodigy server ($2000 retail), running Roon ($500 lifetime subscription). I found this set up sounds better than the ($995) Bridge II being fed by my Prodigy server. My thought is that a $6k Octave server feeding the DS Dac via I2S can replace a $2,000 server and a $2700 renderer. If the UI of Octave is as good as Roon that seems like fair value with less complications.
I just have a G2 at home from a friend and don’t get it connected for whatever reason…everything as it should but no sound…hope I have another chance at a later time. It’s own server SW (they just dropped pure uPNP) is weak imo with just very basic features. But they still support uPnP/Openhome and Roon.
Not me, and I don’t know what the removed post means.
What I find curious is that Linn, a successful company internationally that have made a line of streamer/server/DACs since 2007, consider ethernet optimal to the exclusion of internal storage. On the other hand, PS Audio consider internal storage preferable to the exclusion of network storage. Linn do not make separate streamers and DACs, they consider them one unit, whereas PS Audio are making a streamer to complement their DAC.
Linn also completely abandoned spinning discs and Class A/B amplifiers over 10 years ago, whereas PS Audio are again the complete opposite.
I have no idea how successful PS Audio is. Linn have sales of over $20million, profits before drawings of about $2million and about 75% of their sales are exports.
All this shows is that two long-established companies, and Linn have traded since 1973, can go about the same problem at similar price points and come up with fundamentally different solutions, and I don’t think anyone can say one is right and the other wrong. They are just different.
What the streamers do have in common is that they are both closed systems.
After being publicly nailed to the totem pawl by Elk for flagging I never flag anymore. But apparently I am not the only person who notices a level of irritation in your posts against those who don’t seem to meet your personal profile to have a right to participate in this forum.
This whole why are you picking on me scenario seems vaguely familiar and it always involves how much things cost or how purchases didn’t work out the way I planned. So to make things better you should take my advice on how to run your business.
I sometimes get the idea that in the high-end context it is almost rude to want value for money.
Servers are unique in this context that it is the one piece of audio equipment that many people still DIY, using NUCs or similar. Roon are not a hardware company, but said that they made the Roon Nucleus to satisfy their software users who do not have the DIY skills, and the units are priced at not much more than the parts + labour + a little profit for the effort.
Most servers you can look inside and see all the parts and price it up. I was surprised that the one I have has a quite expensive TEAC ripping drive, a fast DVD unit that costs about $90. Some of them cost as little as $20. It can rip a CD very fast. It is noisy. Like my previous unit, you can choose between fast (noisy) and slow (quiet) modes.
I would modify it a little and say: there were times when some hifi gear had the approach of some racing cars. Was it Lotus or McLaren (not sure but one of the two) famous for being the fastest (when they work).
So occasionally high end customers had to be thankful when something sounded really good, which otherwise seemed to be in noticeable contrast to reliability or built quality.
