P10 bad THD OUT

Hello all,

I bought a used supposedly fully functional P10.

After I connected the P10, I unfortunately found that it has a THD OUT
of 1.3% with a THD IN of 1.6%.

The sine wave at the output shows flattened peaks and the falling edge
shows slight distortion.

Resetting the settings, or changing the phase does not change the behavior.

For comparison, I also have a P5. This one works fine. Delivers a THD OUT
of about 0.2% and shows a clean sine wave at the output.

As read in similar threads here on the forum, the regenerator boards
from the P10 will be broken.

I live in Germany, so shipping from the P10 is very expensive and time consuming.

By profession I am an electronics engineer and used to working with
circuit boards. Therefore the question, is it possible to buy the
regenerator boards at PS Audio and exchange them in the P10 itself ?

Visually, the P10 looks absolutely new and it would be a great
pity if I could not use it.

Attached are pictures showing the signals from the P10.

Many greetings,
Dirk




I have two P10s. One needs new regen boards (there are two boards). The bad one can’t maintain voltage out (e.g. 237 in, 215 out), and distortion in of 3.0 could say distortion out of 3.4. Like you, I hope the regen boards are still available.

Do you know if changing the regeneration boards is relatively easy ?

I wrote an email to ps audio a few days ago, hope they answer soon.

I suspect that support are overwhelmed with support requests and once they see it’s a 230V version, so not native, they expect the local distributor to suppy support. Sometimes I get excellent support, other times silence.

Edit - sorry I didn’t answer your question. I don’t know how easy it is to change the regen boards, but it can’t be rocket science - just don’t get a belt from the capacitors! Also, be careful of anything that might fall into the unit when the lid is removed.

EDIT - here’s a pic of the boards - the long edges are about 20cms (8")

Thanks for the info and the picture.
Changing the boards should be quite easy.

Questionable if the boards need to be replaced completely or if maybe only some of the power transistors are burned out.

Hi Dirk, I’d love to know what you decide as i don’t yet know what will happen with mine, I hope it can be looked at by the end of next week. Dan.

I will try next week to find a PS Audio dealer here in Germany who also does repairs.

I will report here about the further steps.

Can you say what the two regenerator boards cost approximately?

EDIT - Do you have a picture where I can see the type of the power transistors ?

I think the boards are about £1000 fitted but think you should talk to whoever the distributor is for advice.

I have packed the boards away again as they’re the ones that I’m getting put into my P10. You could get the lid off yours, which if I remember correctly involves undoing the allen bolts at the top of the four corner piers and then lifting the lid off somehow. Good luck.

HiFi2die4

Hello Dan,

thanks for the link.
I will call Hifi2die4 on Monday.

Greetings,
Dirk

Hi Dan,

Hifi2Die4 makes the service and repairs here in Germany.

Following a hint and to make sure, that not only a cable in the P10 has come loose, I carefully opened the lid.

Unfortunately, this immediately showed a dark/burnt spot on a regenerator board. The inside of the lid also shows a black discoloration exactly at this position. Since the regenerator boards are definitely broken, I ordered new ones. Unfortunately they have to be ordered from the USA, which can take 2 to 8 weeks.

Greetings,
Dirk

1 Like

Hello Dirk,
I have the same problem with my P10. Can you please tell us what the new boards are supposed to cost in Germany?
Thanks
Fritz

Sorry to hear about the P10. Our team usually doesn’t take too long to ship out the new boards once they’re on order so hopefully you’re able to bring the P10 back to life soon.

1 Like

Hello Fritz,

the dealer could not give me an exact price yet.
When I have the boards I will report.

Grüße,
Dirk

Opened the P10 once.
A vacuum lifter is needed to lift off the lid.

A dark/burnt spot can be seen on one regenerator circuit board. The inside of the lid also shows discoloration in the same place.

Immediately after switching on the P10, a thermal imaging camera shows a temperature of 152°C at the dark spot from the circuit board.

Hope that the new regenerator boards come soon.

Many greetings,
Dirk




Hi Dirk,
I’m sure you’ve thought of this, but here it goes anyway. I’ve not seen talk about root cause. Please correct me if I’ve missed something. It wouldn’t be the first time.
The burnt component(s) are the result of a failure not the cause. If you haven’t done some further troubleshooting/root cause analyses you run the risk of cooking the new boards. That would be a crime, punishable by multiple pinches, slaps about the face and neck.

Last year I couldn’t spell ingneer; now I are one!

:crazy_face:

Hi,

as already written, I bought the P10 used.
The previous owner obviously did not notice the error and used the P10 for a long time with the error. Therefore, the clearly visible discoloration on the lid.

In different places on the internet you can read that the flattened sine peaks and the bad THD OUT are a clear sign for defective regenerator boards. But what can be the cause for this damage, I could not find out so far. Possibly connected devices with switching power supplies, which cause a more or less strong short circuit depending on the moment of switching on.

Is anyone here aware that other boards or components had to be replaced besides the regenerator boards ?

In any case, I will talk to the service before the boards are replaced. It would be very annoying if they were to break again.

And an engineer I am also.

Thanks for the additional info. I will be sending positive ways in hopes that the boards alone are the fix.