P12 - is it ok that fans work only after restart despite operating at around 50°C?

Power Components
1

Hi all,

I run a brand new P12 for a couple of weeks now, but noticed that it’s quite hot!
Measuring from it’s top grills I get something between 46 - 50°C.

As I understand from P12’s manual, it should not be more than 40°C.

There’s plenty of space from all sides and from the top of the unit, so nothing blocks the airflow. No heating in the room, outside is around 10°C.

It’s fans start to work only after restarting P12 via button on it’s back, or by just unplugging and plugging it back. They keep spinning for some time, unit cools, and then fans stop.

After some time P12 gets hot again but fans won’t start despite unit’s temperature.

Is it ok? Is this how it supposed to be? Paul mentioned somewhere that P12 should run “cold as a cucumber”, but seems like it’s not the case with my unit :smiley:

Status screen is attached:

20190509_064149
20190509_064149.jpg4032×1960 428 KB

Thank you!

2

I’m not sure about P12, but in the previous generation P5 power plant the fans always spin up after a start/restart. This is a functional check by design as part of the start sequence. The fans should stop after the start sequence, and then cycle on/off as required to maintain the heat sink temperature within limits. By the sound of it, your fans are passing the start-up functional check, but they might not be cycling on/off after that to keep the heat sinks cool.

2 Likes
3

Thanks for your reply, Brodric!

Yeah, that’s my concern. I can understand start-up functional check, and it’s nice that device cools at least after this, but I thought fans should also turn on when PP is hot again in order to keep it within that temperature range. And that never happens.

Buy the way, when fans spin, I can actually hear them “whispering” like some part or it is slightly touching something. Even when I’m sitting in my listening chair 3m away from the unit.
I think they could be more precise and silent for the device’s price, and the maximum one should hear is the airflow, but not “rustling” :stuck_out_tongue:

Here’s the sample, where you could hear the ‘whisper’ after the big primary “vacuum cleaner”-noise:

4

The fan sound and behavior does not seem normal to me. You should reach out to your dealer for support.

1 Like
5

Thanks for sharing this with us. I am going to forward to customer service for comment. It sounds like the fans aren’t turning on automatically when they should.

What country are you in? Where did you purchase it from?

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6

Hi, Paul

I am in Ukraine (Lviv).

Maybe you remember, at aruond 6-8 months ago I did an inquiry with PS Audio about the official distributor in Ukraine and how to get PS Audio products. Then I got a reply and Michael Krichevsky (president of Luxtone ltd) was cc’d to that conversation. So I purchased P12 and DS DAC from him and got my devices on 26.04.

Please, let me know if you need any additional information.

Thanks for your help!

Sergey

7

And the P12 fans made that odd whiring sound on day 1?

8

Lviv. What a coincidence. Only last night I watched a YouTube video of a pogrom in Lviv after the Nazi’s invaded the city in 1941.

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9

yes, but then they shut down and I was like: “well ok, at least they aren’t spinning all the time” :smiley:
…but when I noticed that device is actually warming up I started to look up on the Internet if anyone had a similar issue. I understood that everything should be quiet and cold.

I also called PS Audio Service dept couple of days ago via skypa-call, and concluding all our long discussion I got the answer that 46°C was still ok, and that if P12 still operates and doesn’t shut down means that it’s ok.
We agreed that I’ll contact Service again in couple of weeks unless it heats up to 60-70°C

But then yesterday I measured it was already 50°C, and I figured I’ll post here just in case, as I’m scared to wait till something will burn :slight_smile:

10

Irrespective of the temperatures, the fans shouldn’t be making that noise. Especially in a brand new unit.

11

I briefly had a P12; upgraded to P20 because of system demands. When the fans worked, they were silent.

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12

That’s right. Big fans. Drive them slowly. Enough air movement to keep things cool yet remain quiet. Only in this instance they are noisy and not keeping things cool. I’m surprised at the PS Audio advice “if P12 still operates and doesn’t shut down means that it’s ok” because the noise those fans are making, something is obviously wrong. To me, unusual noise means stop using it, not keep on going. It is telling you something is not right and it shouldn’t be ignored.

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13

50 degrees is not that hot really. Rads are doing the job, but there is something suspicious going on about it getting that warm with such little load. I’m sure PSA will advise and help soon.

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14

Yeah, to be honest, I didn’t expect to have any fans there at all.

I think, if I remember correctly, when I did an inquiry specifically regarding fans in Power Plans, but got the answer, that those units don’t have any fans. Although, maybe it was only related to the P15, as I was asking mainly about that model. I was sure that P12 doesn’t have any as well, as I saw pictures of, as I see now of P5, and there wasn’t any.
But it’s not a big deal. You know, even with that noise I could live, as when music plays not super quiet you don’t hear them, obviously.

Anyway, yeah, I’d be happy to upgrade it to at least P15 if that would be possible.

Also, I know, it’s the whole different story, but DS DAC can’t recognize connection via Audioquest Diamond Optical Cable. That green dot is slightly flashing, like it’s trying to see the connection, but won’t connect and stays dark, like there’s nothing connected.

I tried to connect Mac Book Pro - usb - Gustard U16 - toslink - DS DAC, this way and did not succeed. Tried all formats and samplerates even below that that cable can support, but DS DAC just won’t budge! :smiley: Via I2S it connects ok, just doesn’t sound good, so I keep connecting directly via USB.

The cable works with other DACs, like with NAD M51 and Pioneer reciever. I have no idea what’s going on with that! I’ll go and take somewhere another Optical cable to try. Just wondering if anyone had a similar problem.

16

:sweat_smile:

17

I must say, it sounds terrific!!! Love the DAC!

19

I’m sure of it! It’s just that I am sooooooo far away! And I’m also moving to London in a few months, so I have some concerns if there some shipping going to take place.

21

Thanks! I’m trying! let’s see how this goes :slight_smile:

22

yeah, and that was the reason I started the post, as I wanted to know what temperature the device should reach for the fans to start cooling it. Maybe I’m just overreacting and they would turn on eventually if the unit will reach some super-high degree.

Also, for the first week after I connected everything to P12, my amplifier was getting unusually warm! And now, for some reason, it’s fine, the sinks are at stable 34-35°C compare to 45°C last week.

All this technology is a big Mystery for me, but maybe P12 will cool down eventually? :smiley:

23

I think it’s just the way they work - correcting the mains input. Altering mains means the PP has to work against the mains supply too, which has low enough source impedance. I think all PPs have some sort of internal impedance built in (perhaps a simple sub ohm resistor), so they have more headroom to work on incoming supply, otherwise they would effectively attempt to regulate the incoming power supply of the whole house. This built in internal impedance is a small compromise to pay for regulated and corrected power supply that leaves the unit. That impedance is also used for current sensing that we see on displays. What I am trying to say, that even if the screen display shows a very low power consumption, the PP may still be working hard fighting the incoming power, resulting in lots of heat. But take this with a grain of salt :slight_smile:

1 Like