It’s actually a lot more than that, some parts of the the day it’s every 3 to 5 minutes, other times it’s not so often. It’s not a big clunk sound, but a single relay click, I think there is also a much quieter relay click also from time to time. looking at the information screen it looks like Vin value is constantly changing every second or two by upto 2-3 volts. With Vout changing by about 0.2v Is this normal?
Unfortunately because the Powerplay website can’t see my P20 I can’t see any graphs
Hi @jamesh more info. I’ve just had another look at the info screen and everything is changing every second apart from thd out that stays fixed at 0.1, for example power out is constantly changing from about 190W to about 282W. The only thing connected at the moment is my oled tv, sky box and video processor.
Everything sounds normal besides the relays going off a bunch. The fast that your incoming is changing by 2-3 volts ever two seconds is pretty outstanding though, in a not so good way. Mine maybe fluctuates by I just stared at mine for a minute and it moved up by .1v after maybe 30 seconds. What happens if you have no load on it?
Yes, all seems to work fine. Tv picture quality is significantly cleaner. This is something I will have to investigate. It’s all powered from a dedicated powerline put in from the fuse box. My power amp is currently plugged into the same feed as the P20 but not plugged into the p20, maybe this is dynamically changing Vin to the P20.
Hi @jamesh, Re my clicks to answer some of your questions. The louder click I hear is like the the 1st click when coming out if standby, the sometimes secondary quieter click is like the second click after standby. None of them sound like the 3rd click that occurs when the screen goes red to green out of standby.
My displayed varying power load is exactly that. Looks like oled TVs power requirement is very dynamic I guess with all the leds going on and off.
Vin still changes all the time. I have no way of knowing if it really is, or if the P20 input dac that reads the voltage is broken.
So sometimes it can be a couple of hours between clicks, other times it can be every 3 minutes or so. It even does it when there is no load at all.
The fact that the P20 seems to be working well along with the relays being so unpredictable makes me think that it is caused by the input power. Like I said, input voltage varying by 2-3 every second is pretty crazy.
Hi @jamesh The difference scope looks a bit like a saw-tooth graph. My only real concern is will this shorten the life of the relays
Edit: actually more 45 degree up/down rather than sawtooth which implies a vertical rise
You can confirm input voltage stability using a multimeter to measure the socket. $20 on amazon.
Mind posting a picture? I’m very curious to see this.
2 other things are odd
Wow, that’s some of the worst power coming in that I’ve ever seen on a PowerPlant’s display. This absolutely has something to do with the amount of relays you hear. Would be a pain in the butt to do, but you could potentially bring the P20 to a friend’s house in a different neighborhood with better power and test this theory. The P20 is not only working very hard to correct the incoming, but doing one hell of a job. I don’t know how things work in the UK, but it might be worth bringing up to your utility.
Even if you have it set to MW, the output scope doesn’t have enough resolution to show it. MW is pretty subtle in the grand scheme of things. The fact that you’re missing a unit ID has absolutely nothing to do with performance. This may be an issue down the road though when you hook it up to PowerPlay.
Hi James, if you remember I have already raised a query with you about Powerplay not working. Why does it say 00000? Have I bought an early prototype?
Sorry, I’ve had so many people reach out about it it’s hard to keep track of all of them. No, the fact that it’s missing a unit ID just simply means that it wasn’t programmed in during production. I can’t remember, but it’s possible it can be programmed in the field. Try reaching out to our service team, they may have a solution for that. service@psaudio.com
@stevensegal has claimed many times there have been Europe-wide regulations for the quality of the power supply for decades and specifically in the UK, to the point PowerPlants are unnecessary in the UK.
Perhaps he will chime in with specifics to assist in working with the power utility.
I knew you were going to mention that! Our town had a 7 hour power cut a month ago. Something big broke and they’ve had to reroute stuff around temporarily. It looks like the local transformer hub is under a bit of pressure currently
The UK and EU has a vertically integrated electricity supply code with almost 100 years of legislation. Read at your leisure, plus the associated Regulations etc. at www.legislation.gov.uk (search electricity supply) and then search the EU legislation.
I have not referred to this many times, once or twice, and it’s not a claim.
I have never suggested PowerPlants are unnecessary. If I thought that, I would not have bought one.
When I had a regenerator, it told me my voltage rarely moved by more than ±0.5v.
I’ve associated the benefit of mains regeneration with the problem of poor mains (impedance, voltage swing, noise) on transformers, resulting in hum, which we don’t like.
There is an article on this published only a few days ago, in HiFi News, by Jim Lesurf, an audio engineer and Senior Lecturer in Physics and Electronics at St Andrew’s University. He makes the point that there are now better transformers and switch mode power supplies. Here is an extract.
Having not changed my hifi for over a decade, I bought a Linn switch mode powered amplifier and soon bought an Isotek Evo3 mains conditioner (their most popular product).
I then experimented with valve amplifiers and then a few conventional transformer-based amplifiers. During that period I used a PS Audio Power Regenerator.
I then switched to a Devialet switch mode powered hybrid amplifier. I found the regenerator made more noise that the rest of the system, so removed it and then sold it. (The regenerator hummed but the rest of the system is dead quiet, there is nothing audible until you press play.)
For a while all the audio was just plugged into the wall, but I did a home trial of a Shunyata power cable and that alone made a significant difference - wall to Devialet. I bought three and their Venom unit, which is a very expensive mains block that does little more than provide more sockets, some filtering and component isolation. A few weeks ago I borrowed a Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 and that made a significant difference, so I bought it.
So my experience is that I have benefitted from PS Audio power regeneration with transformer-based amplifiers, and mains conditioning with switch mode power amplifiers. The latter, in my experience, benefit significantly from the lowest amount of electrical noise as possible. The Devialet switch mode power supply is universal 50v - 270v so should not and does not seem to suffer from voltage swings or impedance issues.
I have also said I use other types of power supply - 9v batteries and 9v ifi low noise SMPS for media converters and a Continuous Power Supply for a server.
Which is all very nice, and your past posts speak for themselves, but can you offer any specific help to our colleague?
Interestingly (or not) I’ve not heard the relay click tonight, I increased Vout from 230V to 235V. Only time will tell if this is a coincidence or not
My past posts may speak for themselves, but you obviously don’t read then very carefully, suggesting I said “PowerPlants are unnecessary in the UK” when I actually used one for years, with transformer amplifiers.
Moreover, I am one of the few people who seem to have chosen the regeneration option in the UK. Mains conditioning has been far more popular since the 1980s and the leading audio brand, Naim, has for 30+ years preferred to make separate 24v power supplies for their amplifiers.
Whoever it is can do their own research.
