Playing Double-rate DSD via DS


#1

I love my Synology NAS/MinimServer/Bridge II setup. I would also like to play double-rate DSD, which the DS can do but B2 cannot.

I could use a Windows PC with foobar2000 via USB. I know this will work and is a widely-used option; but I am wary of the noisy PC environment and the less-than-perfect [for audio] USB interface. I also prefer not to run a full-size computer for audio. There are various gizmos and pieces of software that can help improve USB playback and reduce the overhead of Windows, but I’d like something simpler if possible.

Network players like the Sonore Signature Rendu and Musica Pristina are expensive and are full-size components, for which there is no room in my audio rack. And more than I really need.

Some time ago PSA was thinking about an external version of the Bridge that would be more powerful. Is that project still alive? I hope so. It could convert ethernet input to i2s in a small form factor–that’s what I really want.

Does a Raspberry Pi do i2s? Is there a stripped-down/audiophile version of Linux that would avoid the overhead of Windows?

Are there any other options for 2xDSD? Thanks for any suggestions!


#2

You might look at the BeagleBone Black renderer project at Computer Audiophile - the non-i2s version worked reasonably well when I tried it and I know that people were talking about an I2S output, I just don’t know if someone pushed it thru. I would think it would have enough power for double rate DSD, but I’m not sure.


#3

I would suggest to try the microRendu (they still accept pre-orders for June delivery). I am thinking about ordering one but I don’t like the idea to visit the custom office again.

The Raspberry Pi does I2S with help of a Audio-GD I2S-to-HDMI card but here you only have DSD64.

I still have a small nettop running Daphile next to DS DAC. That was my preferable solution (and DSD128-ready via USB) untill I got that Audio-GD module for my Raspberry. (btw thanks to Linvincible!)


#4

Thanks, Ted – I will look at the Beaglebone Black.

Holzohr, I appreciate the info about the limitations of the Raspberry Pi/HDMI combo.

On the Sonore website I looked at the µRendu and also at the SonicOrbiter SE. They seem to do a lot of the same things but the SonicOrbiter is a renderer, not a server. I have a good server (MinimServer) on my NAS but B2, my current renderer, is limited to DSD64; by using a different renderer I can get DSD128. With either product it’s a USB interface but probably about as good as one can get with USB since these products are specifically designed for audio, presumably much better than a Windows PC.


#5

Holzohr said
I would suggest to try the microRendu (they still accept pre-orders for June delivery).

  • As a few of you probably know I have been playing with the uRendu for a week’s time now.

#6

I haven’t had mine long enough to conclude anything, have you ?


#7

Why don’t you just downsample offline and put them on the NAS and store the dsd 128 else where


#8

(Assuming the question is meant for me:)

I want to hear the sound quality of DS128.


#9
magister said

On the Sonore website I looked at the µRendu and also at the SonicOrbiter SE. They seem to do a lot of the same things but the SonicOrbiter is a renderer, not a server. I have a good server (MinimServer) on my NAS but B2, my current renderer, is limited to DSD64; by using a different renderer I can get DSD128. With either product it’s a USB interface but probably about as good as one can get with USB since these products are specifically designed for audio, presumably much better than a Windows PC.


Yes, the SOSE and the µRendu are doing the same (as far I have understood). The hardware makes the difference. For the SOSE Sonore is using a “simple” CuBox.

@Frode (what or who is “schuerholzklump238”? Was it your former forum name? giggle_gif)

I will be waiting to hear your opinion about the µRendu (to make my order or not).


#10
Holzohr said

@Frode (what or who is “schuerholzklump238”? Was it your former forum name? giggle_gif)

I will be waiting to hear your opinion about the µRendu (to make my order or not).


This nickname was something that stuck with me after the forum migrated to SimplePress. I have no idea how it was created.

I will return with my impressions of the uRendu.


#11

I see. That’s really strange then. Well, in case you need a translation… 1_gif


#12
Holzohr said Yes, the SOSE and the µRendu are doing the same (as far I have understood). The hardware makes the difference. For the SOSE Sonore is using a "simple" CuBox
I spent a lot of time online last night studying the CA article on the µRendu and everything else I could find. They don't make it easy but I figured out that it is as you say; the µRendu is custom-designed for best quality USB playback while the SOSE is built on the CuBox. (I was not previously familiar with the latter.) I am eager to hear from those are testing the µRendu now.

I’m still interested if there are any other good options out there for DSD128 playback with the DS.


#13
magister said

I’m still interested if there are any other good options out there for DSD128 playback with the DS.


I’m playing DSD128 via USB from a cheapo Acer Netbook running Audiophile Linux 3.1 and it sounds damn fine. The Acer uses a single-core 64-bit Intel N450 chip, and I’ve pulled the wi-fi card for, hopefully, lower noise.

My understanding is that some versions of Linux will do DSD256, but AP 3.1 can only do DSD128 via DoP, which works nicely with the DirectStream. I’d like to try something like the Audiobyte Hydra-Z between the two.


#14

Last night I did a careful comparison between USB (via a small Windows 10 computer that I use for ripping LPs, running Foobar2000) and the Bridge II. The computer has Fidelizer Pro and a good-quality USB cable, the Paul Pang red, and is powered from my HD Plex LPS. There are other tweaks I could do but at least it’s not a totally “raw” Win10 setup. The USB wasn’t bad, but going back to B2 gave a noticeably more relaxed, open, and musically involving sound; more flow, so to speak. Listening fatigue set in after less than two hours with the USB, but I can listen to B2 all night if I want. Soundstage was also slightly wider. The overall results were the same whether the source was DSD or PCM, although DSD recordings did sound smoother than PCM via USB.

As audiophile stuff goes the Sonore µRendu is not expensive. Assuming that the comments from Sonore about the µRendu representing a state of the art assault on USB playback are accurate, it is probably worthwhile to do a head-to-head comparison between it and B2. That’s where I’m heading at this point, anyway.

I can’t say what the outcome of this comparison will be, but the SQ of B2 continues to impress me (as it has since its release). I can’t wait to hear it with Torreys.


#15

To PS Audio,

If we look around the market it seems most network streamers are processing DSD128 and some even DSD256 files without any pre-processing.

Blue Coast Records has started recording and mastering in higher rate DSD.

DSD-Guide thinks DSD128 will become the audiophile standard.

I have even seen a couple of DSD512 albums on offer.

The world is changing, are we getting left behind?

Will the BridgeII ever be able to receive and play higher rate DSD files? If not, why?

Please help a very interested customer understand,

Chip


#16

I could be wrong but believe that UPnP, which B2 (and B1) uses, is limited to 192/24, which rules out DSD128. The DS does accept DSD128 over USB or I2S. If a direct USB connection isn’t practical, PS Audio is coming out with a new device that lets USB be transmitted over Ethernet. I would think that device would be able to accommodate DSD128. (Other devices, like the Auralic Aries, support DSD128 into the DS.) Ted does not seem to be a fan of rates higher than DSD128 as there are trade offs (higher resolution but also more noise).


#17

I can play DSD 128 over I2S directly to my DS via the Sonore Signature Series Rendu.

I did have to uncheck Mime-type check in UPnP Tweaks in BubbleUPnP settings to force it to play the files.


#18

I am not aware of a 192/24 limitation on UPnP or DLNA.
Can you tell me where I can read up on this?

How does this limitation impact the DSD stream going into the DAC?

I am new to DSD and trying to learn as much as I can.


#19

The Rockna Wavedream Net accepts native DSD128 via ethernet (maybe Frode can confirm about it) and so (it seems) the LUMIN U1 Transport.

Maybe it is an either DoP (limited to DSD64) or native DSD (DSD128 possible) thing.


#20
chip said DSD-Guide thinks DSD128 will become the audiophile standard.
I avoid trying to predict the audio future, but I do think that DSD128 may turn out to be the 'sweet spot' -- better sound than DSD64 without the ginormous file size of higher resolutions. That's one reason I want the ability to play it.
Will the Bridge II ever be able to receive and play higher rate DSD files? If not, why?
No. When B2 was being developed, several of us here asked for DSD128. Paul said it wasn't possible. He didn't give a really technical answer, just that getting DSD64 over ethernet was quite difficult and they didn't see a way to do higher resolutions. This might have something to do with UPnP limitations, I don't know. I wish it had been different.