PS Audio Music Server In The Pipeline?

I’d prefer just a socket to attach an internal SSD (buy it myself). Saves over 1000$ or quite more for sure if we talk about 8-16 TB run through the calculation factor.

I also heard about that but why should it be better? Should at least not be better than a cable connected external HD (to the same type of socket the internal would be connected).

My vote is no internal storage at all. Most of us have networkable storage of some type and having no onboard will make the unit simpler and appeal to more people IMO.

Hopefully someone at PSA who makes decisions is reading this topic.

The theory is, Because the data from internal data storage is transferred via a much faster communication bus much loser in hierarchy to the processor without having to pass through USB chips and cables and conversion steps. Also the lines are shorter.

Than you are basically talking about a streamer rather than a server. The octave is supposed to be a server device.

1 Like

Then leave room for a user selected plug in SSD like @jazznut suggested. They keep getting cheaper faster than you can deplete inventory.

1 Like

The interesting thing is…the person I trust with hearing differences and a crazy resolving setup (where I hear this stuff, too) hears the difference between digital copies depending on from which HW and power supply quality they were copied.

He also tested the kinds of hard disks. The best was not SSD, the best was slow spinning HD (WD red), unfortunately the large ones in physical size. He also told the internal storage of the Auralic 2 sounds best. They should provide the connection they use for the internal disc for external connection instead. But practically most are using NAS anyway I’d say, at least when capacity over 8-10 TB is necessary. In a galvanically well isolated streamer, a network connection should theoretically be better than another electronic part inside the housing using the same power supply as the audio.

2 Likes

Most people don’t have network storage at home. Devices like Innuos are successful because they are plug and play and don’t rely on other devices.

The theory of HDD vs SSD is very interesting. This may explain the persistence of some brands on using HDD. Time to do some experimentation in the weekends :smile:

I noticed in the Innuos Zen specs that it uses the WD Red HDD mentioned above.

1 Like

I chose the Zen over the Zenith because the music data is cached in the RAM an so the speed of the disc is not an issue. The WD Red is a standard server disc, I’ve had 4 x 4tb WD Red in a QNAP server rattling away for the last 6 or 7 years no problems at all. The Zenith has an additional linear power supply, I forget what for. Overall I did not consider the Zen a poor compromise and it is better value for money. At the end of the day, Innuos provide the consumer a good range of choices at different price points.

2 Likes

The root cause for this finding is not clear…it may be a certain aspect of what makes an ssd or hd use, not the principle itself. Just as when Paul announces one time that disc spinners are the best source and in the other time that streaming might be. It’s just a temporary statement and depending on other design criterias (e.g. noise measures) than the principle of disc drives or streamers generally, therefore meaningless within the big picture. Might be similar with ssd vs. HDD … we don’t know yet what’s the relevant aspect within their design.

But the slower spinning and therefore slower HD’s indeed seem to have slightly less negative influence than faster spinning ones. We remember this from burning CD’s where slower speeds were better, too.

But all these are tiny differences compared to most other topics. If you don’t hear differences between flac/aif/wav, don’t even think about harddiscs.

I doubt we’ll offer as standard any more than 1tb of SSD. Perhaps we can have different levels but while 1tB won’t be enough for some, it’s a hell of a lot of storage for most users. Our plan has been to make external USB storage easy to attach if one needs more.

Perhaps if enough people really aren’t happy with 1tB we can offer more or an easy way for users to insert their own internal drives.

The problem is that we’re not in the hard drive business. Whatever parts we buy to put into products we have to service, warranty, and mark up. I’d rather see those parts that are essential to the design (processor, chassis, I/Os) be the core parts expense and figure out a way to let people get the best deal they can on hard drives.

8 Likes

Not that you need me to be your defender, but this strikes me as a perfectly reasonable approach for a relatively small enterprise like PSA.

Stay safe, Paul.

2 Likes

The decision has to be made if it is a streamer or server. Linn and dCS both decided to make servers with data from network shares only, both disliking usb intensely. Linn have been doing servers successfully for 15 years and never had usb connectivity. Once there is hard drive inside, it requires optimisation in respect of formatting, physical isolation, electrical noise, power supply etc. Plugging in a USB Drive is fine as far as it goes, Auralic have favoured that by making it a network share, but it’s not ideal.

As you have also noted, “Most people don’t have network storage at home. Devices like Innuos are successful because they are plug and play and don’t rely on other devices,” and “The Taiko Extreme has up to 24TB of internal storage.”

There are many, many approaches to offering a file player/streamer/server. No one approach will please everyone.

Offering a nice bit of internal memory, with the option of attaching USB drives, and/or a NAS provides a great deal of versatility. But there will remain those who are unhappy even with this level of flexibility.

Perhaps you can offer a server with the hard drive and an option without (for those who need more storage already have an appropriate drive).

You can do all that with an Auralic Aries Mini. I’ve had one for years and my son now uses it. Takes an internal 2.5" drive, external USB Drive, can create a network share, network connections, streams Tidal and Roon, MQA and Roon Ready and a great app.

My Aries Mini cost £350 new, I think was $499 in the USA. My Innuos cost £2,000, the Octave will be about £6,000 and the Taiko is £25,000. Even at £2,000 the Innuos provides well optimised storage. For £6,000 I would expect more than just plugging in an external usb drive.

1 Like

As I wrote, there are many approaches.

This is further evidenced by the range of prices you list, from £350 to £25,000. To paraphrase you, for £25,000 I would expect a lot more than some built in storage. :slight_smile:

I feel comfortable PS Audio’s offering will fall nicely between these extremes in both price and performance.