PWD and eLyric


#1

Hi All,



I’m new to this forum. Excited to see so many knowledgable people.



Ordered for Perfect Wave DAC and Bridge few days back. Really liked the concept/design and also so many great reviews. So want to try out/compare with my current setup - Naim nDac and Pioneer Elite N-30 streamer. If it goes well probably will keep both the set ups - nDac being dedicated to my Naim CDX2 CD player, Pioneer Elite N-30 for Airplay (that is a cool feature) where as Music Streaming from my NAS through PWD+Bridge.



Looking for some inputs on setup -



1. Do I need to have eLyric Music Manager as the music server software ? Right now I’m running Asset UPnP on my QNAP NAS. Will that be fine to integrate with PWD bridge ?



2. I bought eLyric Controller for my iPhone 5. It does not currently stream well from Asset UPnP to Pioneer Elite N-30. Is it supposed to work only with PWD ?



3. PWD has 2 i2S inputs. But in my understanding so far they can be only used with PWD transport. In that case why do we need 2 of them ?



4. Can the 192kHz 24 bit USB used for any USB device or is it strictly to connect with a computer ?



Thanks in advance.



Regards,

Sourav


#2

Welcome to the PS Audio family Sourav. I will provide some answers to your questions, but I hope that others provide their opinions too.



1. Asset should work well with the PWD/Bridge. The Bridge can play tracks from any UPnP server, but some think that certain servers work better than others. eLyric Music Manager does work well with the Bridge and is the only server software that can provide some form of gapless playback. That said, if you have a Windoze PC then you can use the player foobar2000 with the foo.out.upnp package to stream gapless music to the PWD/Bridge. In the future PS Audio plans to release WaveStream, which is a virtual sound card driver that will stream any audio from Windoze or Mac to the Bridge.



2. Similarly, you can use any UPnP contrller to operate your PWD/Bridge but eLyric controller is the best integrated controller available. That said, eLyric controller has its problems and you might have better luck with another. Unfortunately this is a matter of trying several to see what works best with your system. I hope that others post their opinions here as I have little experience with others. I have had good luck with BubbleUPnP on an Android tablet, but you appear to be an Apple user.



3.There are several source components available from other manufacturers that comply with the PS Audio I2S over HDMI cable spec, and we hope that PS Audio eventually adds a network player of their own to the list. Two I2S inputs may not be enough.



The playback capabilities over a USB connection are dependent on the source component having appropriate drivers for that port. Most Linux based devices have drivers that will support USB async up to 192/24. Windoze is the biggest offender in requiring the user to install a driver to support rates above 96/24.



I hope that this helps.



J.P.


#3

Sourav, I agree with everything J.P. said but I would recommend that you start with eLyric before moving to different playback software. eLyric can access networked based music directories and can be used as a benchmark for measuring how good the PWD can sound. From there you can move on to foobar, Wavestream with a different front end, as you see fit. But with eLyric you can compare others to a constant that is known to produce excellent sound.


#4

Hi Tony and J.P.,



Thanks for ur suggestions.



@Tony - when u say eLyric u mean eLyric Music Manager (not eLyric Controller) right ?



When u mentioned ‘eLyric can access networked based music directories’ where do you suggest to run the eLyric Music Manager ? If I have to run it in a Windows machine/Laptop/Desktop then I have to ensure that that system keeps on running always (like another NAS). It makes the overall thing bit complicated.



The problem is my NAS (QNAP) is linux based. And the eLyric Music Manager does not have a linux based installation. I’m not comfortable to move to Windows based NAS (the current QNAP NAS is doing great for last 3 years). In fact I don’t have any Windows system in my house.





Regards,

Sourav


#5

Just install Minim server on your NAS and use any UPnP controller (e.g. BubbleUPNP or Kinsky).



http://minimserver.com/


#6
Sourav Mazumder said: In fact I don't have any Windows system in my house.


YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

#7
@Tony - when u say eLyric u mean eLyric Music Manager (not eLyric Controller) right ?


Yes.

The problem is my NAS (QNAP) is linux based. And the eLyric Music Manager does not have a linux based installation. I'm not comfortable to move to Windows based NAS (the current QNAP NAS is doing great for last 3 years). In fact I don't have any Windows system in my house.


Yes, that will be a problem. I have a centralized Win7 system at home that is on 24/7 to support a lot of other stuff, so it makes sense for me to have eLyric in place as one of my front end sources. Alex has offered up an alternative solution that a number of folks here have been using. Personally I haven't compared Minim to eMM so I'm not sure how they compare soundwise. If you do a search you can find threads and posts where people have provided their impressions.

#8

@AlekZ - One clarification though, the laptop from my work has windows in it. But it is not used at all for non-work purpose. Even for work I mostly login to a VM running Linux !!!


#9

@J.P - On ur third point - I also felt that PS Audio could have a pure play N/W player (no DAC inside). It could have really hit the market heavily given the Digital Lens functionality - nothing equivalent to that I’ve heard/read so far in other brands.



However, none of the other brands have pure play N/W player either. Probably everyone thinks that the output from a N/W player will not be good enough to be fed in S/PDIF which can further deteriorate the sound. So they want to bundle the same with DAC through i2s. But surprisingly all of them have Digital Out from the streamer which is in contradiction to this argument.

I wish PWD could have had Digital Out. It would have been fun to hear how the output of Digital Lens works with my Naim Dac.


#10
@AlekZ - One clarification though, the laptop from my work has windows in it. But it is not used at all for non-work purpose. Even for work I mostly login to a VM running Linux !!!


I know the feeling ;) I use Solaris for years as a home OS with thin clients for all family. Then my daughter "borrowed" one of my Linux laptops and switched to Linux (the rest is still on Solaris 11.1). Have to use a Windows box for my work though, so my environment is not 100% Windows free (but 100% Apple free :D )

#11

Well incidentally mine is very much Apple-e. Mac, tablet, iPhone, Apple Tv, Airplay !!! I still prefer Apple compared to Windows as I can fix some of the things as it is closed to linux (Free BSD !!!). Anyway off topic for this forum.


#12

Back to the topic - please try Minim and let us know it it works for you :wink:


#13

Yes, do try Minim. It is an excellent media server option in the Linux environment.



J.P.


#14

Hi,

Can someone from PS Audion tells me (us) when eLyric will work?

It used to be good but now it is - sorry to say - crap which is a pity for something that should work flawlessly with such a good hardware as the PWD

Since IO7 upgrade, selecting the PWD in the device menu is very very difficult (I have to unplug & plug the RJ connector and keep pressing in the PWD icon and hope I get lucky … not acceptable at all).

Thanks for some guidance here


#15

eLyric has been discontinued.


#16

@christopherenaud Yes, sorry to say there are many better alternatives and we haven’t been able to keep up with the changes at Apple in their IOS updates. And now I just got a copy of a Beta for IOS8. Sigh. We did discontinue and recommend Plug Player or any number of excellent UPnP controllers on the market.



We’re currently working with another vendor that has a staff that can keep up with the changes and we should be able to have an even better recommendation in a few months. For now, I recommend switching. Sorry.


#17
@christopherenaud Yes, sorry to say there are many better alternatives and we haven't been able to keep up with the changes at Apple in their IOS updates. And now I just got a copy of a Beta for IOS8. Sigh. We did discontinue and recommend Plug Player or any number of excellent UPnP controllers on the market.

We're currently working with another vendor that has a staff that can keep up with the changes and we should be able to have an even better recommendation in a few months. For now, I recommend switching. Sorry.


Paul, Are we talking about Elyric controller on my iphone or EMM Elyric music manager on my windows machine?
I'm a bit lost and they both work from what I can tell.

Is plugplayer for controlling used on my phone?
Should I use Minim on my computer then?

Thanks,
Bill

#18
mr_bill said: Is plugplayer for controlling used on my phone?

Kinsky for Apple (there must be other apps, Apple owners should be able to help), BubbleUPnP, UPnPlayer for Android, Foobar2000 for Windows.

mr_bill said: Should I use Minim on my computer then?

Short answer: yes. MediaTomb or JRiver are other possibilities.

#19

PlugPlayer is an iController app for your IOS iDevice.

The EMM is an uPnP server and library manager residing on your PC/Mac.

The PWD Bridge is a renderer (player).



GLOSSARY (typical):



Media Renderer

This is the UPnP name given to the device that actually plays the music.



Media Controller

This is the UPnP name given to the device used to browse music, choose what to play, and control playback.



Media Server

This is the typical name given to the place where your music is stored. An UPnP Media Server is required. This can either live on a NAS (Networked Attached Storage) device, or on your computer.



UPnP

Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) is a system of protocols that allows a broad range of devices to be interconnected, both wired and wireless, and to work seamlessly with one another by establishing network services. UPnP supports zero-configuration networking and is automatically completed once UPnP devices are connected to a network.



Wi-Fi Router

A Router connects Networks and in a typical case a Router is used to connect a Local Area Network (LAN) to the Internet. The Router is also where and how you attach the Bridge, your NAS, your computer and your iDevice to your LAN.



Note that the media controller does not transfer the music itself.


#20

From this I gather that EMM is still the preferred UPnP server/library manager or if I want to switch, go to Minim or JRiver or other.



For my iphone I’ll add PlugPlayer? That costs $5 and has about the lowest rating on the App Store I’ve seen. Any alternatives for iphone controller? Don’t use Elyric anymore - correct?



Then I should be good to go with my Bridge.



Is this correct guys?

Thanks!