And at Axpona 2023, I sat next to @pmotz when he had control of music selection while listening to the FR20’s
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Sounds like “dangerous liaisons” at AXPONA!
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Indeed, it was! Fun too. That was 2023, this year I was talking to Chris and he remembered that!
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I find these discussions coming from people who have lived a long time with their vintage speakers fantasizing about the pluses and minuses of modern replacements fascinating. You hear a lot about how modern materials and computer aided engineering have advanced speaker design. I made the mistake of following that train of logic a decade ago with buying a new speaker that had some positive reviews at a price level comparable to my old ones adjusted for inflation. I even listened to them briefly at a dealer. They seemed to sound good. Once I got them home and lived with them awhile I realized they couldn’t hold a candle to my decades old Dahlquists. Worst audio decision I ever made. Luckily I found use for them in my home theater system. But, still, I daydream about these new designs. Reading about other folks dealing with the same decisions is most captivating.
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DQ 10s remain hard to beat.
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Bought my DQ10s 47 years ago brand new and as my system improves they just keep sounding better and better.
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Amazing!
They are great speakers.
I agree, the DQ10s are wonderful speakers. But…what new designs are you daydreaming about today?
With the mirror image modification.
Yes.
I would look for time/phase coherent apeakers.
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I’ve seen a few videos about the new higher spec Magnepan speakers that sound interesting. Seems they are rethinking their crossover philosophy. Also, they have been talking about their bass modules with DSP forever now but they still haven’t released them as far as I know. All these things plus their lower weight and friendly prices, at least in the past, adds up to something I might get excited about for my particular listening room.
The PS Audio line of speakers are very compelling as well but they are completely different animals. My room is on the second floor of my home and I wouldn’t relish the thought of wrestling the 30s or 20s up our stairs. Maybe the 10s would be doable but they may be a bit too bassy for my tastes based on what I understand.
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Elk, I love time/phase coherent speakers, like my Thiels, but there are limited options for new speakers that are truly coherent. The Vandersteens are probably the best known of these speakers from current manufacturers, which is why they’re on my short list. However, a lot of knowledgeable audio folks seem to minimize the importance of first-order slopes and time-aligned drivers, so there’s not universal agreement about these issues. I’m comfortable considering other designs, too, if they sound good and look good to me. Of course, I may just hang onto my Thiels a while longer rather than searching for greener grass.
I fully agree with you.
Very few speakers are designed this way. Once you are accustomed to this type of sound it is very difficult to give it up.
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As a long time owner and fan of DQ-10’s I would suggest you look at speakers from Carl’s current company, NOLA. I’ve owned a pair of KO’s since 2016 that replaced a pair of Vandersteen Treo CT’s that I could never get comfortable with even after previously owning Model 1, 2CE Sigs and 3A Sigs. Though I’ve owned an still own other speakers I’ve found no reason to let the KO’s go. Carl just recently ceased production of them and replaced them with a similar model the Champ. If you can get a listen to either model it may give you what you are looking for. Open baffle midrange and tweeters combined with bass drivers in dedicated chambers.
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Jon Dahlquist labeled it “time delay distortion” back in the day.
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Thanks for all the speaker advice! Here’s my current short list of speakers under $15K that might sound great and be a good fit visually for my living room:
- Vandersteen Treo CT
- PSA Aspen FR10
- Borresen X-3
- Thiel CS 2.2 (my current speakers)
Any other speaker suggestions would be great. I’ve inserted a photo of the room from behind the primary listening spot.
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The V-steens with powered woofers have a bass-level and a bass-'Q’control plus a 10(?)-band equalization system that can reduce peaks and, to a lesser degree, raise valleys in the bass response… Said another way, these systems provide the user with MANY ways to get it wrong…and an equal number of ways to make the bass/room response better.
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What are you looking to achieve with your upgrade?
I think that one of the challenges is that you Thiel speakers are good and have rather extended bass (30 Hz extension), smooth response and rather wide but controlled off-axis response (other than a dip around 900 Hz to the side). Other than somewhat uneven vertical response (from the first order crossovers) and some delayed/stored energy in the upper midrange and lower treble , there’s not much to complain about.
Something like an FR10 has wider coverage, cleaner decay and lower distortion but may not be enough of an upgrade. The same goes with something like the Borrensen (where a couple of 4.5" woofer don’t equal the cone area of an 8" woofer) and so may not give more output and high level dynamics, even with much beefier woofers than were available 18 years ago.
Unless you are looking for primarily more refinement and resolution, you may need to go one notch up in size/performance from where you are currently looking.
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Have you ever considered Magnepan loudspeakers? Or any other kind of open baffle loudspeaker?
I’m biased of course due to having Magnepan MGLR-1’s well over 20 years ago. For some dumb reason, I sold them. Once I sold them, I was on a constant hunt for that sound again.
I tried everything from open baffles loudspeakers to electrostatic to DIY large format open baffle/horn combo designs, large format single driver open baffle designs and literally countless pairs of traditional box loudspeakers.
24 years later, I finally purchase a house (first time ever) that has a large enough room to accept some larger Magnepans, hence me buying a pair of Magnepan 1.7i’s a couple years ago, and I’ve never looked back.
Since I upgraded most of my gear last year since having the 1.7i’s, I’ve stopped looking at gear and loudspeakers. (Pass Labs XP-20 preamp, Auralic Altair G1 streamer, highly customized Odyssey Audio Stratos monoblocks).
This system can play darn near anything at any volume level you like. And those who say Magnepan’s can’t get loud and don’t do dynamics apparently do not have the right amplification.
Of course, you would require a subwoofer, preferably two. For my system, a pair of SVS PB-1000 Pro’s that are fed a high-level signal from the Stratos monoblocks. Plenty fast, detailed, textured and extended for any kind of music, and easily keep up with the Maggies. In fact, I prefer these subs over my brothers’ REL subs, though very good in their own regard. They just can’t do what my SVS subs can do.
Oh, and the 1.7i’s get fed a fullrange signal. I let these babies play the full spectrum and they don’t flinch.
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