@Elk, isn’t that number 1 on his list?
I’m sorry, my original post was ambiguous. I edited my post to hopefully make clear I mean a hard disk drive plugged into a USB port.
There must be something in the Roon chain that is causing degradation in sound quality. How is the Bryston fed audio information from Roon? USB or over the network?
It could be the Roon chain in some rigs but not mine. Playing to BridgeII over LAN is as simple as it gets and compared to MPD MControlHD with the same chain it’s simply not as good.
A while back, I did do an externally powered SSD connected through the Bryston eSATA, as well as an internal SSD. Each of these sounded comparable to the NAS/MPD combo.
Must admit, 1.4 permits Roon playback on my IPad; so, I’ll be using that for new music exploration (headphones) then buying CDs or downloading hiRes to put on memory sticks for playback on the main system.
The memory sticks/Bryston/Redcloud combo sound is really extraordinary. There are woodwinds in some orchestral recordings that I never knew existed, and there’s NO volume setting that’s too loud!
And It has always bothered me that drums on some jazz recordings spread out across both channels. With Redcloud, the drums don’t spread
Understand. All the other setups sound good (except Roon on NUC), but now that I’ve heard what my system is capable of, it’s difficult for me to choose when I’m willing to listen to a “lower performance” mode. Considering the power, heat and expense of playing music on my main system, I can’t justify listening at any performance level but the highest performance level.
I’m anal that way 
Jah no dead! How does the reggae sound on your righteous system? Divine, I’m guessing? How do you like the Sutherland 20/20?
rogerdn saidI'm confused. You think the lossless audio in the Roon chain isn't be degraded yet you also claim that it sounds worse than the MPD. If noise/jitter isn't being added in your Roon chain, then why does it sound worse than from the MPD? If the audio is lossless and isn't being degraded via your Roon chain (as you claim) why would it sound worse? What's in your Roon chain? I'm just having a hard time understanding.It could be the Roon chain in some rigs but not mine. Playing to BridgeII over LAN is as simple as it gets and compared to MPD MControlHD with the same chain it’s simply not as good.
Patrick saidThere seems to be a consensus, here, on the Roon’s sound quality. I’ll try to compare it asap, before the renewal of my subscription in January
However, I think one thing, before speaking sound quality of Roon against other sofware, it sounds to me that it would make sense to know if we are using Roon in a standalone mode or throught the bridge on a dedicated SBC. The same with JRiver which can be in standalone or as a UPnP/DLNA server up to a SBC with a UPNP/DLNA client. For MPD it is a bit different while it must access to the music files or it can be wrapped with a UPNP end point.
I say that, because I suspect Roon can sound differently if used in a standalone config, the server has so many tasks to manage other than pure data transmission to the DAC, while a simple Roon bridge on a small device connected to the DAC would less affect this last may be. Just my two cents…
I agree 100%. Roon sounds completely different via USB from my PC (I even have a high quality Asus X99 Deluxe motherboard) compared to my Sonore Signature Series Rendu. It’s no contest. The SSR is a UPnP network renderer purpose built to get the most out of an I²S output. Unlike Roon on my PC, the audio file is decoded and rendered on the SSR, then sent to a secondary board which is isolated from any noise that the processing board might have. the audio information is reclocked via low phase noise Crystek clocks and output over I²S to the Direcstream. Both the processing board and I²S output board have their own low noise linear power supplies. The power supplies are also shielded to prevent EMI entering the I²S output. It’s no surprise that the SSR sounds better than my PC. To get the SSR to work with Roon, I actually have to use a microRendu. It essentially tricks Roon into thinking the SSR is a Roon end point. It sees the microRendu and thinks it’s sending the audio to it but in reality it’s being sent to the SSR. I’ve compared the microRendu to the SSR. The SSR sounds head over heels better and it’s no surprise as to why. The microRendu doesn’t go to the same lengths to create a noise/jitter free audio output. Plus using the USB output on the microRendu has it’s own drawbacks.
Seegs108 saidrogerdn saidIt could be the Roon chain in some rigs but not mine. Playing to BridgeII over LAN is as simple as it gets and compared to MPD MControlHD with the same chain it’s simply not as good.
I’m confused. You think the lossless audio in the Roon chain isn’t be degraded yet you also claim that it sounds worse than the MPD. If noise/jitter isn’t being added in your Roon chain, then why does it sound worse than from the MPD? If the audio is lossless and isn’t being degraded via your Roon chain (as you claim) why would it sound worse? What’s in your Roon chain? I’m just having a hard time understanding.
I’ve seen a few threads on this and the Roon guys seem to fob the SQ difference off as Roon is heavy whereas Tidal is light. See the following:
Where Roons CEO, Brian, incredibly fobs off the Op by saying it’s comparing apples and oranges because Roon is so much heavier an app.
“TIDAL’s app is doing almost nothing–displaying web pages to you when you click and streaming straight out of the cloud. Roon is a heavyweight library manager/server. Apples and Oranges.”
Now I love Roon and the experience it brings. But to take such a cavalier attitude towards SQ with the audiophile community is a perilous approach IMO.
Hopefully they will work to narrow the gap because DSP abilities and great interface are great - but I for one want that DSP applied to the best sounding signal to start with.
Cheers,
Alan
I have just updated Roon. Redcloud two weeks ago. Even before the updates, I had zero issues. I still have zero issues. Redcloud is outstanding! I can say for all the updates, this really is like a new dac.
Roon with bridge II, Redcloud, and DSMP works perfect. Once ( if ) DSMP can play blu ray audio I’ll be even more blown away. Not sure why everyone seems to have issue?
Why do you think “everyone seems to have issue?” (This is one awkward phrase.)
This thread is not about having problems with getting Redcloud to work, but rather that Redcloud brings to the fore Roon’s limited sound quality.
Many have expressed this criticism in multiple threads in the past as well.
The problem is that if you read the posts here on this site most all you read about is problems. People who have equipment that is working fine don’t write in to say everything is working as it was designed. This can skew your thinking toward everyone seems to have issues. I worked in a customer service environment in the 90s and the people there would often complain that every time that answered the phone it was someone with a problem. I had to point out to those people that this was a good thing as no issues equals less people to answer the phones.
BigAlMc saidI’ve seen a few threads on this and the Roon guys seem to fob the SQ difference off as Roon is heavy whereas Tidal is light. See the following:
Now I love Roon and the experience it brings. But to take such a cavalier attitude towards SQ with the audiophile community is a perilous approach IMO.
Cheers,
Alan
I don’t think the argument “Roon sounds bad” is a valid one to make. It’s more about how you’re using Roon that can affect sound quality. It doesn’t have to sound bad. If you can take the computer processing/application out of the equation I think you’ll find Roon sounds just as good. If you can isolate the processing portion of Roon (ie noise/jitter) you’ll find the audio sounds better. This is something Paul talks about often when discussing the new server. The “big” server they’re working is showing difficulties with controlling noise. They’re trying to find the best way to shield/isolate the processing portion of the server from the output stage of the server. As Paul notes, this is difficult to do but necessary for optimal sound quality. Roon even talks about this in their post you linked to. If you can find a way to do it (which unfortunately is usually expensive), it’s going to sound great. Sonore makes their SSR and new SSR SE and there are some other products out there from Melco and Aurender that will do an excellent job as well if you aren’t interested in waiting for Octave. As Roon notes, they feel a proper UI is necessary for a great experience. If you want the best sound you’ll need to isolate Roon from your audio. That’s just the way it is.
I had an Aurender for a couple of years and as much as I loved it for its sound quality, i disliked it for its dated conductor app used to control it. It didn’t really develop at all during the years I used it (unleaded you were into streaming) and couldn’t even do basic things like providing the user with an option to sort album artists based on first or last name, so that’s why I decided to go for Roon.
I fully agree with you that there is no reason for Roon to sound bad, but you can make it sound bad if you want. In my world, to get the best SQ is exactly what you describe - keep the computer processing capabilities (core) away from the stereo, and the best way to do that is to separate the server/core from the endpoint/bridge. In my system, there is a substantial difference in SQ if I connect my core (I use an Intel Nuc i7 with Roon ROCK) directly to my DSD through USB, compared to using an endpoint at the stereo instead. I think that if you haven’t tried a separate endpoint, you haven’t really given Roon the option to sound the best!
I have tried several different endpoints and currently I’m using Bridge II. In my system it sounds really great and is very convenient since it’s “integrated” into the DSD, but I do lack the possibility play DSD128 with it, so I’m still looking for the ultimate solution.
One of the difficulties with deciding if Roon (or anything else) has sonic issues (compared with anything else) is that there are so many ways to get from A to B - or R to D, I guess I should say. And so many different configurations of associated gear.
Then there’s the bit where you actually DO some sort of testing/comparison, and pick one thing or the other - then that tends to remain one’s opinion, independent of changes made subsequently, unless you retest at every step of the way (ugh!). So my feeling that Roon is a bit soft-sounding is actually based on comparisons made nearly a couple of years ago - approximately a Donkey’s Age in computerland. Might not really be the case any more, given a properly optimized chain from Roon to DS.
But it’s nice to have some decisions sorted out for a while, from time to time, so one doesn’t have to be in a continual state of not knowing what you like best : )
Seegs - I feel that we (myself included) also need to be careful about statements like, “I don’t think the argument “Roon sounds bad” is a valid one to make”. Not sure, but I dunno if someone actually baldly stated that. It gets reduced or changed to that over time via the text game of telephone.
I think it’s more nuanced - many of us who have made comparisons in our systems** have noted better SQ with origins other than Roon. I don’t think Roon sounds BAD - I’ve just heard alternatives In My System (IMS - still want to adopt this, though I suppose it “goes without saying”, like IMO) that I prefer sonically. I have not used an interface I prefer functionally over Roon.
**to make qualifications: See your post, and my post above : )
Very well stated badbeef…
Sounds worse is what I should have said and I still think what I said makes sense. Roon has the potentual to sound as good as other services. You just need to pair it with the right hardware. Bits are bits, it’s how you use them that matters. There is nothing like Roon’ s UI elsewhere at the moment that includes Tidal support and unfortunately you need the right hardware to get the highest potential for sound quality from it. But it is possible. I just get the sense from some of the posters here that it’s not possible. That simply isn’t true.
Seegs108 said Roon has the potentual to sound as good as other services.What do you place in the category of "other services?" That is, to what are you comparing Roon?