I believe that Snowmass is less forgiving of bad-sounding sources than was redcloud. And Snowmass definitely sound subjectively “brighter” on my system, even though I know that the frequency response is identical.
FWIW: I deliberately skipped either two or three releases in a row because they were less musical on my system than was 1.21. You can easily rule in or out Snowmass by just reinstalling Redcloud and seeing if your problem goes away.
That is one thing that I really like about PS audio’s updates compared to Oppos: It is actually possible to downgrade your firmware if you happen to prefer the sound of an older version.
I find Snowmass more forgiving of poor sources, to wit I’ve found many mp3’s via USB into an Oppo far more listenable, and often enjoyable, than they were with Red Cloud. And with music generally, I’ve found a much better top to bottom tonal balance with SM. Why this should be different with a cable TV signal, which is also being run thru the Oppo’s (modified) digital section and same cabling to the DS, has got me baffled. But the idea of going back to Red Cloud to take out a variable is actually a goid one.
Highstream, I too listen to my DVR via the DSD (remarkable upgrade in sound). I run a glass toslink cable from the DVR into the DSD, and though the sound has changed moving from RedCloud to SnowMass it hasn’t deteriorated–it matches the chained sound of the other inputs.
In the past I did run the digital sound out from the DVR to the Oppo UDP-205 and then via coax into the DSD, but in comparison running the DVR directly into the DSD sounded a bit better.
I also find Snowmass more forgiving of bad recordings. I had a pile of CD’s I was going to get rid of because I found the sound quality less than enjoyable. Last night I played a few of them, and they’ve now been taken out of the reject pile and placed back in my collection. I think those who upgraded their DMP and DAC at the same time, and find the sound less forgiving, should go back to the previous firmware on the DMP, 3.09, because I found it a little more natural sounding compared to 3.10.
Just did a Red Cloud vs. Snowmass comparison across several cable TV channels and there’s no doubt about the difference. It’s almost as big a difference as the other way between RC and Snowmass with music. With RC, the sound image widened, the low end of voices (resonance) and overall fullness returned, with no more thinness or tinny sound. Switching back to SM, the image narrowed, same voices and music channels no longer had much bass, and the sound became tinny again.
As far as I know, the same electronics for TV and (USB) music sound are being used in the Oppo - anyone know different? - I don’t know what to make of it.
Haven’t posted for a while, but I just have to say…
…after receiving an email from PS Audio, I saw that there was a new update for my DSD. I thought, neat, they’re keeping at it, but I was pretty blazè. How much better could it get? Well, I updated both the DSD and Bridge II this morning and the answer is: A lot!
This is a fantastic upgrade. Everything sounds more present, more natural, more relaxed. There is much more detail, but the living, breathing kind. In all honesty, after playing some Tidal MQA streams through it just now, I looked at my vinyl and its supporting players and thought, ‘at this point, really, why bother?’.
Kudos to PS Audio and Ted. That I received this for free, as an existing customer, shows what a great value buying PS Audio really is.
I don’t understand what is happening to be honest. In your shoes I would try running the TV sound directly into the DAC bypassing the Oppo to eliminate the possibility that the Oppo circuitry or settings is responsible for the different sound.
I’m a little confused. Your post above says you found Snowmass more forgetting with better tonality, which is in conflict with this more recent post which appears to be saying the exact opposite.
Go back to my post #18. I’m speaking to the difference between what music via USB files or CD sounds like from the Oppo - great! - and what cable TV sounds like - “crappy.” My firmware test determined that Snowmass seems to be the difference for better and worse, not something the cable company coincidentally did at the same time Snowmass arrived.
lonson, Since the DS doesn’t take video, I’m not seeing a way to bypass the Oppo. The cable box has only one HDMI output.
Does your cable box have any other digital output? My previous DVR from Time Warner had both coaxial and optical output, my current one has only optical output, so I run the digital output from the DVR to the DSD via a Lifatec optical cable. I like optical output into the DAC, as Ted has noted almost all outputs sound the same on the DSD and with my new DVR a 24/48 signal is passed to the DSD, resulting in quite good sound.
I am finding the same. Started playing with high/low level setting to try and ease things a bit. The sound is not aggressive but but definitely more articulate. Decided to leave on high and just lower the volume to 80 and listen for awhile.
I have had limited opportunity to listen to SnowMass so far, but I would agree that at least at this time, about 24 hours in use, it sounds very articulate and expressive which on some recordings can seem more aggressive. I’m sure that with some tuning and tweaking this will be a wonderful sounding OS for most of the material I listen to.
lonson, the cable box does have an optical output, but using that to the DS and HDMI directly to the TV didn’t work.
I’ve tried using a Silflex toslink connected to an iFi spdif purifier, at the end of a Boomslang spdif cable run, and it sounded exactly the same as HDMI/I2S via the Oppomod card (my modified Oppo no longer has an optical output). I prefer the spdif/purifier combo. I just today received a Sys Concept silver toslink, which supports 24/192 and which another DS owner recommended. I’ve also got a PAD Neptune spdif in the works and expect that to be the mainstay, with or without the purifier.
If that’s all that’s changing then the answer is fairly clear - the cable isn’t sending stereo PCM. If you use some other box in the chain, it’s likely converting the non-stereo PCM to stereo PCM. If the cable output was, say, DTS you’d get noise since the DS doesn’t have a DTS decoder. If the cable output was, say, mono, the DS doesn’t understand mono (this is a bug in the DS, but I keep forgetting to fix it because most all sources are capable of sending stereo and many convert mono to stereo.) If the cable output was DD (or relatives: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital), then since the DS doesn’t have a DD decoder you’d be getting the stereo but with the sound stage compromised by the DD encoded data.
Snowmass and Redcloud (and Huron) use identical input processing code. The differences are purely in “math” between the inputs and the output. (E.g. The fade in is a feature of the final volume control in the output.)
If you weren’t using the DMP, then you might check into what in your system is dropping samples. I’m not arguing that the fade up is a great feature, but while it’s there it gives you a chance to find drop outs, glitches, etc. in the rest of your system.
[Edit:]
If it was literally a couple of seconds then it would have been a gap in Redcloud as well. Snowmass mutes on a transition of sample rates, etc and on the clock stopping. The only way to keep it muted is with a missing clock or samples that are malformed. In TOSLink, S/PDIF and AES3 there’s a valid bit. I2S can only be invalid with irregular formatted data, e.g. L/R changing at the wrong time relative to the bits or, perhaps an inverted clock that catches the data bits when they are changing instead of when they are stable…
If the dropout was instead that the DoP flags were bad then you would have heard the data as low level PCM hash, but with the music discernable. The DS for many releases has allowed a small number of missing samples (or samples with bad DoP flags) without dropping out of DoP mode.
Well, that’s a shame that the optical out and the HDMI out don’t work together, but to be honest I suspect it may be a setting amiss in the DVR. I had that problem when I had digital out set to “HDMI” (in my DVR that setting is in “Devices”) and had to move that setting to “Other” and then the optical output was recognized by the DS and the HDMI functioned for video and audio with the TV.
Ted, I have an Oppo 103 with a vanity HD card. This is what I am running, and this is the primary source that I have been running ever since I purchased my DS.
I’m presently using the top coaxial connection. But now that I think about this, I realize that I am uncertain as to whether this is indeed the correct connection to be using or not. You should know from your own experience exactly how this card can fool one into thinking that you’re connected properly to the correct port when you are not. Can you remind me, because if the bottom connection is the correct one, then I need to apologize for unfairly blaming snowmass for these dropouts.
Ted, I’m not sure what you’re referring to. Are you suggesting that the cable box is not sending stereo PCM and how it’s being handled up the chain by Snowmass vs Red Cloud, either at the Oppo or DS, is not the same with music vs. TV?