No shouting match here just don’t like the sites like this. They remind me of the dark days of audio reviewing - Julian Hirsch and his ilk. I find their intentions and anti high end bias to be arrogant and meansprited.
Didn’t know this site at all and scrolled a bit through it…looks like a total waste of time in many ways.
This is slighty off topic with respect to the Sprout, but it is in line with measurements and listening. I really enjoyed the 2 part video of the interview of chief engineer Jurgen Reis of MBL fame.
Part 1:
Part 2:
I appreciate you sharing the link, @retro - it’s sparked some good conversation.
Personally I like that ASR is out there doing what he does. I think if you’re new to audiophilia and you hear people telling you that you need expensive cables or resonators or ultra high-res files to enjoy your music, it can be overwhelming and off-putting.
Audio is a vast hobby, and getting starting can be a daunting task. I’d argue it takes time to learn to trust your ears (and to learn what your preferences are), and measurements can help guide your listening when you’re first starting out.
Once you spend more time listening (like many members on this forums), you naturally gain a greater understanding of your audio preferences, which measurements matter to you, which don’t, and you learn how to shop for your upgrades more organically. I think this is why many members here aren’t interested in what ASR does.
Regarding the measurements in the review, they’re generally pretty accurate. The only exception is the FR graph - that one does not match our measured performance here at PS HQ. It’s possible there’s something wrong with his technique or the unit he reviewed; it’s tough to say without knowing more.
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I would be curious to see PS Audio’s measurements. Is it possible to post them here?
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Though measurements can’t tell you everything about how something will sound, they are absolutely necessary. Be honest, most people’s ears are NOT that good, and all kinds of (unrealistic) biases can enter into the decision to buy an audio product. First and foremost, and audio device MUST MEASURE WELL, at least to a certain point. It is an indicator of proper engineering and good design and to some approximation that the device will reproduce sound faithfully. ASR has exposed expensive DACS that are not well engineered and even inexpensive DACs that are frankly pieces of shit, with other inexpensive DACs in the same price range WILDLY outperforming them.
I bought a Schiit Modi a while back, and it’s been ok. After reading ASR reviews of Schiit products, I will NEVER buy another Schiit product again. They measure very poorly and are build so sloppily it’s embarrassing. Even their most expensive DAC is outperformed by many other DACS at half the price.
But again, I realize measurements can’t tell you EVERYTHING, but they do tell you a hell of a lot.
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Measurements were important decades ago because most devices had clearly audible distortion, which was highly relevant given the low power from valve and early solid state amps. In the UK the Quad 33/303 pre/power amplifier was the landmark product because the reviewer in Gramophone (probably John Borwick) had to go out and spend £400 on new more sensitive measuring equipment. That was a huge amount of money in those days. One of the reviewer’s jobs in those days was to confirm to the reader the accuracy of the published specifications. ASR does some of that, so does Stereophile, but I doubt many others.
Most high end audio test days has negligible measurable distortion, but there are some surprising exceptions, no names mentioned. Some very cheap equipment has very low distortion. Whether or not you like the sound, expensive stuff these days should at the very least measure well and to specification.
If, like me, you use very good headphones with a cheap all in one unit like the Audiolab M-One, there is a reasonable chance of there being audible noise and distortion. ASR will give me clues on that and on things like the quality of the headphone output, which can be terrible.
Of today’s reviewers, I like Andrew Everard (although I’ve read his reviews and commentaries in Gramophone for almost 30 years) and Darko. They cut through the technical stuff and give excellent consumer advice. They both demystify audio for the uninitiated. They don’t give endless lists of subjective comments based on recordings most readers have never heard of.
ASR is not the final arbiter, but certainly a useful contribution.
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Actually I skip any mention of sound quality anyway…
As I already mentioned, I use the 3rd party measurements to narrow the list of well engineered products to demo / audition…
Then the final buying decision is based on listening…
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To be honest, I usually read reviews after I’ve bought a product…
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I tend to doubt this particular site. The review they gave the Bifrost Multibit was REALLY negative, and that is NOT my experience at all. That thing sounds stellar.
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Really great stuff.
Uhhh…I just received my Stellar “Stack” and am over the moon with the audio quality of the Stellar Gain Cell DAC/Preamp and the two S700 Amps (review including integration into my Home Theater rig coming in a few days). I’ve seen the Chord products online and while they maybe better DAC’s (I have no clue since haven’t heard or compared them my PS Audio Rig). They are “UGLY” looking little boxes. Let’s be honest and they don’t have the switching capabilities of the Stellar. Just received my delivery today !
I gave up on that site shortly after being made aware of it as:
They positively reviewed a streamer with SPDIF output as well as, in a separate review, a USB to SPDIF converter.
When I asked which might sound better coming from my gaming PC (through Ethernet and USB respectively) the reviewer answered to just get a cheap 50 dollar USB to SPDIF converter as it would make no difference, descent DACs being immune to differences.
So in addition to only care about measurements, they also think that differences in measurements upstream of a DAC have no impact on sound: why measure and review at all then…
The big thing with the Chord products for me is the little lozenges being unlabeled controls/indicators with no labels as to what they mean. That’s terrible design.
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Another “narcissistic” hit piece, in my opinion… Life is too short and full of potential to maintain such a dogmatic perspective. My $0.02./YMMV/FWIW/ETC.
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So I don’t understand, he made an error with his test, says oops, doesn’t change the entire first part of his conclusion, just a snippet later in his posting on the fact that he was wrong and then gets defensive when people question his scientific method and says his audience doesn’t want to see so much data and graphs. What a joke.
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As others have noted, there is some value in making sure that a piece of audio gear meets its specs and doesn’t show any serious problems in measured areas that might have an influence on how the unit sounds in reproducing music. However, measurements just for measurement’s sake are useless - it’s how gear sounds that matters!
It would be great if we had reliable ways to measure every characteristic that influences the sound of a piece of audio gear, but we don’t. Not all measured differences produce sound differences that can be easily perceived, and not all gear that measures the same (using our less-than-perfect measurement devices) actually sounds the same on critical listening.
What especially bothers me about the ASR website is how they invent measurements that don’t always have a clear correlation to actual music reproduction at the same time that they promote the perspective that audiophiles who hear differences between cables (and some other types of audio gear) are just “audiofools” who need to be protected from their toxic self-delusions. The self-congratulatory smugness that creeps into so many of the ASR discussions is annoying and limits the value of the site - at least IMO.
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Measurements are nice to look at and can give a bit of insight on what to maybe expect(ish). But I always go back to Paul’s view of “Musicality”, that’s where the rubber meets the road and, to me, the Sprout sounds magnificent, esp for the price point. To my ears, THAT’S what matters.
I’m not sure anyone has figured this out, fully… so of course any 3rd party measurements must be taken with a bag of salt.
I use 3rd party measurements (not just ASR but Stereophile and others) to just short-list the number of components to demo / audition. Then make a decision on listening.
I don’t really care for their subjective listening impressions either. If I can have a list of well engineered products, then I use my own ears to make the final purchasing decision.
I think it’s a sensible approach. Others mileage may vary.
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