Hi Luca, thanks for the identification with my pain - toe or otherwise. There are so many variables you’ve suggested that my head is spinning, but I made a realization last night that is so “why in the world didn’t I think of that first?” that I’m almost embarrassed to say it. I was surprised to find that the volume control on my pre-amp is sitting 25 to 30% lower than typical in the recent past. In conducting this experiment, I am listening to music at a significantly lower level than I ever have. I think what this is telling me is that while before I needed to have the volume higher to get the right amount of impact, with the new room/equipment, I can play it much quieter and “feel” everything I need. So I think my center channel “bump” might have more to do with simply how loud I was playing stuff. I’m finding myself starting out, then repeatedly getting up to turn the volume down, then saying, “Wait, I can’t play it that low - II’ll be missing out” but when I go ahead and lower it, I’m actually getting MORE out of it. Maybe this just makes perfect sense: so I’ve improved my system, my room, my electrical connections, my cables. What’s happened is that the whole system is a lot more sensitive and efficient. With this better setup, I don’t even want to kick ass with volume because my system kicks ass at a lower volume and in different ways. This doesn’t mean I’ll stop searching for ways to improve, but it does mean my listening philosophy is totally changing.
I listened to most of your selections that I could find from Qobuz. Shelby Lynne “If I were Smart” was the only one that had the mid-range jumping out at me. It is a more forward sounding mix recording. Others all sound fine but they were not recorded with deep soundstages for sure.
Thanks for giving them a listen. Remember, it’s not really the midrange - as in frequency range - that’s jumping out, it’s the center “phantom” channel - where the singer is in the center and sounds good in terms of quality, but just TOO loud, like he or she is standing about 80% of the distance closer to me than the rest of the band. As I replied to Luca, I think it might be something as simple as overall volume level applied to a better setup, for when I back off, things become more homogenous.
It makes sense, especially in a small room as I have to live in. The closer you are to speakers, the stronger you feel the impact of sound (mainly at the center) while points of reflection are less prone to diffusion due to a shorter distance between walls and listening position. Long story short the width of the soundstage is a little bit cut, not well presented at the extremes right and left, bringing to you a sort of prominence at the center.
Keep us informed, good luck (I can call my lawyer tomorrow to inform him that I don’t need his assistance anymore).
I’m laughing because there’s nothing I hate more than how our crazy society has gone crazy over lawsuits - like anyone ever heard of this thing called an ACCIDENT?
Yes, I understand what you say about the narrowing of the entire soundstage, but the thing I’m so surprised about is that my previous listening space wasn’t any larger, but because it wasn’t treated for sound, I had to turn things up more to get the impact. My soundstage is actually wider in general I think. The center IS more emphasized here, but when I back off on the volume, it fits in better in the overall scheme, if that makes sense. So I’m getting a better, more present center that requires more attention to overall volume to keep it from jumping out too much. And I also think my ears are doing some adjusting to get used to the more present center.
My listening two cents on tracks I had access to.
Perhaps you mentioned it already, but how many hours do you have on the M1200s? Is it possible the tubes / amps haven’t fully broken in?
Hi Vmax. Thanks much for the great feedback - it is gratifying to have somebody listening to stuff I really like.
I don’t know which message it was where I talked about the overall listening volume, but I’m learning that with a better room and equipment, I am getting more impact out of the recordings by turning it down, which serves to balance things better. Yeah, I came up through the era of “kick-ass” stereo systems, even for jazz and classical recordings, so it’s counter-intuitive to think turning it down would IMPROVE the impact. But I’m learning a lot. It’s still got enough volume to be realistic, don’t get me wrong, but I’m almost having to force my hand to turn that knob down 25 percent.
Great observation!. Still in the break-in period I’m sure. But I also think this difference would fall in the same effect category as toe-in by 1-inch - not enough to really change more than a few percent. In one of his posts or YouTube videos, Paul McGowan mentioned how our ears also change in the presence of a better system/room, and I think that’s happening. For years, never really experiencing the presence and power of the “phantom” center channel, I might have been mentally bumping UP the center voice to identify its full quality. Now I’m maybe mentally bumping it back down to where it’s supposed to be. Either way, between lowering the volume a little and the support of the great people on this forum, it’s getting a lot better! So not only is my amp getting broken in, so are my ears!
I agree and that is why I like the amps with big blue meters. Once you learn what power level over saturates the room acoustics it is easy to know where you can set the volume level to get the most out of a song possible. Even if it is compressed.
It also gave me an excuse to listen more to MK2 Galvanic Isolation feature activated. It really helped 3D sound stage. So I was having fun seeing what I was hearing from your selections and descriptions.
It certainly can be astounding and somewhat disorienting to have the speakers disappear, but overall I’m sure you’re going to love it. Slightly lower volume makes sense to me.
Give those amps a solid 300+ hours (you don’t have to be listening for all of them) before you draw your final conclusions.
Well, as much as I hate to tell you this, but after working through your list, I really didn’t think any of the recordings were unusually forward, at least anything that I perceived as unusual. I got the impression that the placement of the vocals were purposeful.
I didn’t get to listen to Rebecca Pidgeon, for some reason The Raven isn’t on Qobuz. I did have Sudden Exposure to Light in my library and on that recording her voice is very prominent front and center. Perhaps this part of her “presence”.
I listened to this, and the rest of the album. Mostly perfection!
Hey, so for some reason I’m guessing, when you said you don’t often listen to the types of stuff I listed, that you might listen to a little Zappa? The screen image on my Mac that I use as a music server in my audio room is attached. Please do get a copy of “Spanish Harlem” - it is such a wonderful recording of everything. And as I said elsewhere, either I’ve made the right changes or my ears have changed - or probably both - so the phantom center bump isn’t really happening as much.
I’m glad you agree about the Hundred Miles album. If you ever get the chance to hear Allison Krauss in concert, don’t miss it. I heard her at the Fox Theater in Atlanta in 2007 and it was the second best sounding concert I’ve ever been to - the first was Gino Vannelli at the Greensboro Coliseum in 1978. Despite how she comes across in recordings, Allison can have a BIG voice that needs little amplification, and she tours with top-notch players.
Vince picture while asking “Grounded or lifted, where can I plug this?”
I guess instead of VU meters, I could use the decibels app on my phone…? I’m sort of kidding.
Agreed! She and US do a great live show. 