Torreys and BridgeII Functionality


#1

My question is directed to PS Audio,

Does the Torreys update also include improvements/fixes for the UPnP/DLNA functionality of BridgeII?

I have been using BridgeII for several months and I have dropouts, tracks stop playing, and not progressing to the next track too frequently to be acceptable.

Are any fixes/improvements, other than Roon which I do not use, included?

Thanks,

Chip


#2
chip said My question is directed to PS Audio,

Does the Torreys update also include improvements/fixes for the UPnP/DLNA functionality of BridgeII?

I have been using BridgeII for several months and I have dropouts, tracks stop playing, and not progressing to the next track too frequently to be acceptable.

Are any fixes/improvements, other than Roon which I do not use, included?

Thanks,

Chip


I’m curious as well due to a similar experience with the Bridge II running minimserver. Can’t wait to run Bridge / Roon combo.

#3
chip said My question is directed to PS Audio,

Does the Torreys update also include improvements/fixes for the UPnP/DLNA functionality of BridgeII?

I have been using BridgeII for several months and I have dropouts, tracks stop playing, and not progressing to the next track too frequently to be acceptable.

Are any fixes/improvements, other than Roon which I do not use, included?

Thanks,

Chip


I’m not working for PS Audio, so I hope that you don’t mind that I jump in.

I’m using the Yale/BridgeII combination since last February, but I do not encounter the problems you describe. Initially I had dropouts with high resolution material but that was caused by a network problem. The point I want to make is that the issues you are having are not necessarily caused by the DAC, and therefore not necessarily fixable by a firmware update.

Are you using a wired connection between the server and the DAC, or is a part of it wireless?

What control point are you using? I’m using BubbleUPnP on an Android tablet.


#4

Torreys does not improve Bridge performance that I know of, perhaps Dennis will jump in at some point if I am wrong.

I agree with Chip. There’s no dropouts I ever get either and those that have experienced it we inevitably trace to network or control issues.


#5

My bridge2 is 100% stable when used with MinimServer running on qnap or MinimServer proxied via BubbleUPnP server running on the same qnap.

By default I am using BubbleUPnP to get ability to stream directly from tidal.

Minimserver is making sure to transcode everything to wav which improves SQ.

Using reliable Ethernet connection everywhere except the Linn Kazoo controller application on the iPad/iphone . Bridge is isolated from Ethernet ground noise via pair of relatively cheap optical transceivers.

I am very satisfied with this setup, however patiently awaiting Roon support for further user experience improvement :slight_smile:

Until bridge2 Roon support in place I can use optical toslink out from the machine running Roon, however the SQ of this is mediocre in comparison to Bridge2.


#6
Paul McGowan said Torreys does not improve Bridge performance that I know of, perhaps Dennis will jump in at some point if I am wrong.

I agree with Chip. There’s no dropouts I ever get either and those that have experienced it we inevitably trace to network or control issues.

Paul, FYI. I experienced stuttering with files above 96/24 with Torreys B. Problem went way after loading Torreys C. JRiver into Bridge II. I like to think my wired network is rock solid. Others, YMMV.

#7

chip and scirica, please give us more info about your setups. Control points do matter, as (for some people) does wired vs wireless. Setting a static IP address for the Bridge can also help.

I use B2 fed by MinimServer (wired); for me, reliability issues come from control points. If you have or can get an android tablet, BubbleUPnP is by far the best control point I’ve tried. On my iPad, mconnect is just not reliable. It can take forever to find the Bridge and it sometimes has problems advancing tracks. There is a more recent version called mcontrol that solves the latter problem but not the former. Currently I’m happy with Creation 5 Media Player when I use the iPad.

You can use BubbleUPnP Server (bad name; it works with your existing server [like MinimServer] to enable the use of CPs that require an OpenHome renderer). Some people have reported good success with this approach using Linn Kazoo; I haven’t tried it myself.

It’s frustrating but don’t give up on B2 because the SQ is phenomenal.


#8
chip said My question is directed to PS Audio,

Does the Torreys update also include improvements/fixes for the UPnP/DLNA functionality of BridgeII?

I have been using BridgeII for several months and I have dropouts, tracks stop playing, and not progressing to the next track too frequently to be acceptable.

Are any fixes/improvements, other than Roon which I do not use, included?

Thanks,

Chip


Can you give a bit more information about your setup, control point, wired/vs wireless, etc? I have to say I’ve been using the bridgeII without any of the issues you’ve mentioned, and used the bridgeI with good success as well. For me the biggest key to success was going wired between my music server and the DAC. Although, I feel I must add, I did have some issues when using Jriver, and stopped using it quite some time ago.

#9

Torreys will only add Roon functionality to the BridgeII and some minor bug fixes. In most cases issues can be traced to other issues such as settings. Each case needs to be analyzed to find the solution that works for the particular situation.

Dennis


#10

Hi all,

Thanks for all the comments. I will start describing my network and systems. Sorry, but to list everything this may seem a bit long winded.

My NAS
QNAP TVS-463 NAS running the latest firmware version 4.2.0 dated 2016/03/11
CPU: AMD GX-424CC SOC with Radeon R5E Graphics
Memory: 16 GB
Ethernet: 1GB Ethernet Adapter (Fixed IP address from DHCP sever via the MAC address.
Directly connected to the switch using CAT6 cable.
Disk Array: RAID 5
Disk: 4 x 3TB Western Digital WDC WD30EFRX-68EUZN0 (SATA)
MinimServer 0.8.3 update 87
MinimStreamer 0.5.24
AssetUPnP Server Version: R4.6.3

My Network
Internet: 100MB Glass Fiber
Internet modem: one 1GB Ethernet connection to the router using CAT6 cable.
Linksys EA6500 SmartWiFi Router
Router serves as DHCP server. Devices have fixed IP address via MAC address.
one 1GB Ethernet connection to the switch using CAT6 cable.
Switch: Linksys LGS318 1GB Ethernet Switch with fixed IP address via MAC address.
one 1GB Ethernet connection to Linksys router using CAT6 cable
one 1GB Ethernet connection to QNAP NAS using CAT6 cable
one Ethernet connection to BridgeII using CAT6 cable
one Ethernet connection to Linn Akurate DS/1 using CAT6 cable

Music Streamer 1
PS Audio Direct Stream DAC running Yale
Bootloader 1.13
Firmware: 1.6.4
Bridge: 1.2.3
FGPS: 0.91
USB: 00.3.3
Rev: 0126
BridgeII (fixed IP address from DHCP server via the MAC address)
Bridge setup screen does not show any updates.
Firmware: N/A
Directly connected to the switch using CAT6 cable.

Music Streamer 2
Linn Akurate DS/1
Ethernet: fixed IP address from DHCP via the MAC address
UPnP/DLNA/OpenHome interface
Directly connected to the switch using CAT6 cable.

My computer
Lenovo T440p
CPU: Intel i7-4600M
Memory: 16GB
Network: 1GB Ethernet Intel I217-LM and Dual Band Wireless-N 7260
Directly connected to the switch using CAT6 cable.
Windows 10 Pro 64bit
JRiver Media Center 21, setup with only Paul’s instructions, used only for music
I have setup three libraries in JRiver

  1. Directly from the NAS music folder
  2. MinimServer
  3. local library on laptop
    I can see BridgeII and Linn as devices
    I can see all my libraries
    JRiver Control Point
    can use all three libraries
    Linn Kinsky
    can use all three libraries

All the devices described above are directly connected to the same switch with CAT6 cabling.

My recent Experience

I can play the Linn streamer without any problems.

When I play the DS DAC through the BridgeII the problems pop up randomly. I can not seem to figure out if it is related to anything.

I recently purchased and downloaded the Sonoma Master Series - One from the web site. I loaded it into my local library on my laptop.
started JRiver MC21
selected my local library, I saw the files were available.
Click BridgeII as the playback device.
Selected the tracks and clicked Play Now.
The tracks were added to the BridgeII playing now window.
The first track played and then playback stopped, no errors, no messages, just stopped.
The playing indicator in the BridgeII Playing Now list stayed on the first track.
The remaining tracks were still in the list.
If I manually selected the next track it would play and then stop again.

I then:
closed JRiver
power cycled (off>on) the DS DAC.
started JRiver, it took about 2 minutes for the BridgeII to show up as a device, this delay happens occasionally
selected my local library
selected BridgeII as the playback device.
selected the tracks and clicked Play Now.
The tracks were added to the BridgeII playing now window.
The first track played and then continued playing each track to the end.

I continued playing other tracks from my local music library and then the playback just stopped again, after maybe 20 to 25 tracks played without a problem. All tracks are the same format - DSD64.

I have this interment problem whether I am using any one of my three libraries and whether the playlist has mixed formats or all the same.

I do not have this problem when I stream the files to the Linn streamer using JRiver or Kinsky as a control point even using the exact same infrastructure - Ethernet cables and switch port.

If I use Kinsky as a control point I can see the BridgeII and select it for UPnP playback. With this control point the playback will stop after each track. It has never automatically played the playlist.

Since I have two streamers on the same network using the same sources and control points I wonder why you would think the network configuration is the problem. But I would not be surprised to find out that it is either.

What can be analyzed to resolve this problem?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Chip


#11

Hi there. I’d look at your network. Bridge 2 has worked flawlessly in my system from the day it was installed. My server runs JRiver 21, the server itself home built based on a computer audiophile design. My audio gear runs through a dedicated Netgear switch though, and it is all hard wired. I’m chuffed with my setup - it really is dead simple, reliable, and sounds wonderful. Happy to provide further details and any assistance I can give.


#12

Hi Chip,

I’m not a JRiver user so my suggestions are a bit generic.

Does the JRiver Control Point have some UPnP specific options to solve compatibility issues (related to playback, gapless or anything like that)? If it has, maybe you can experiment a bit with them. Maybe there are others on the forum who can comment on this, or tell what setup is working for them.

In case you have access to an Android device you can give BubbleUPnP a try, just for testing purposes. If that works OK, you have a clear indication that the problem is in the Bridge II/JRiver combination.


#13

Hi,

@NZChris: I think my network is very robust as it is described in my previous post. It is over specified to make sure I do not have problems with my music system. The network I described is dedicated to my music system.

@Koudijs: I have followed the instructions given by Paul to setup JRiver and nothing more. I am a relatively new user to this very complicated application. I do not have an Android device to try at this time. If you have one, bring it over and we can give it a try.

Chip


#14

Chip - Sorry to hear about the issues you’re having, thanks for the added detail. The only thing that initially jumped out at me was the router, which is one I used to have in my system. Although you’re hard wired have you made certain the firmware is up to date? Other than that I will say from my own experience (and some reviewers out there) that specific router is not all that reliable. I ended up replacing it with a netgear nighthawk R8000 and as long as I keep the firmware up to date it’s been flawless.


#15

Chip, have you already checked the suggestion made by Dennis in the Torreys thread?

http://www.psaudio.com/forum/directstream-all-about-it/new-new-torreys-ready-for-your-approval/page-5/#p56019


#16
Koudijs said Chip, have you already checked the suggestion made by Dennis in the Torreys thread?

http://www.psaudio.com/forum/directstream-all-about-it/new-new-torreys-ready-for-your-approval/page-5/#p56019


Yes, those instructions are in the How To Setup JRiver and the Bridge instructions from Paul.

How To Setup JRiver and the Bridge

Both options are checked.

I know the How To says Mac but Paul assured me the setup is the same for Windows so that is what I have done on a fresh Windows 10 installation.

Chip


#17
mscottring said Chip - Sorry to hear about the issues you're having, thanks for the added detail. The only thing that initially jumped out at me was the router, which is one I used to have in my system. Although you're hard wired have you made certain the firmware is up to date? Other than that I will say from my own experience (and some reviewers out there) that specific router is not all that reliable. I ended up replacing it with a netgear nighthawk R8000 and as long as I keep the firmware up to date it's been flawless.
Hi,

I have setup my music system on a smart switch that is connected to the router. If I understand the smart switch technology the data flow should go directly from port to port without going through the router. Once the switch know where the streamer is it will send the data packets directly.

The router is in the system to give internet connectivity and provide DHCP services, including fixed IP addresses based on the MAC addresses of the music devices. I can confirm that the devices have the address I set up in the fixed IP address table in the switch.

Based on my understanding I think I have kept the router out of the way and only accessed when needed.

I admit I am not a networking professional but after careful research and talking to the IT team where I work I believe my system ‘should’ work the way I have described.

Does anyone think I have misunderstood or missed something?

Chip


#18

I’m no expert either but that’s how I do it.


#19

Hi Chip

Your network setup looks flawless indeed so I would try to look elsewhere for a solution. Either on the server side or on the control point side. UPnP streaming without an OpenHome renderer means that the playlist resides in the control point, which means that your iPad my at some point put the control point app to sleep and teach advance may no longer work. I use BubbleUPnP myself and occasionally see this happening if I accidentally play to the Bridge directly - which is why I also have the BubbleUPnP server installed on my NAS to have an OpenHome renderer for the Bridge. I do this also when I play to other non-OpenHome UPnP renderers.

So my suggestion is to also install BubbleUPnP server and play via the OpenHome renderer you can create for the Bridge like that. Hope this helps.

Send me a personal message if you like to get in touch further (I’m also in Holland).

Jones

@PS Audio, I would consider it a huge improvement to add OpenHome support to the bridge in the near future.


#20

Hi Jones,

I am using JRiver MC 21 as the music library and control point setup with instructions from Paul. See link in post above.

I do not turn off the laptop running JRiver while playing music.

The thing I have a problem with is this works flawlessly when play to my Linn Accurate DS/1. I never get any drop outs and the playlist always seems to play to the end.

I am getting desperate so I will do a little reading on your suggestion.

I think I would need to add a library server on my QNAP such as MinimServer.
And then I would need to add BubbleUPnP Server on the server to impersonate the OpenHome renderer.
Is this correct?

Would I config BubbleUPnP Server on the server or in the BubbleUPnP control point?

What tablet do you use for BubbleUPnP?

Chip
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