We also love cars

[bootzilla]

Ah, I understand now … Tesla’s are good performers on the straightaways but do not corner well. Fair enough. I am not a performance car guy, so I should have stayed on the sidelines on that subject.

This all started when @Excelgam asked about audio quality in his new Model Y and I responded that my Model 3’s stereo sounds good to my ears on FM and Spotify. For some reason, this purely audio-related exchange of a few posts brought out some heavy Tesla hate (e.g., poor reliability, crappy building materials, limited range, environmental issues, etc.).

[RonP]

This is a perfect example of why it’s a good idea to discuss a particular technology in cars, hifi, whatever, rather than get specific to a brand. Distill it down to a specific brand and surely someone’s feelings could get hurt. So why do it?
Not long ago, someone here mentioned that they bought a drool-worthy sports car. And (as predictably as the German train schedule for this guy) another forum member listed his reasons that they made the wrong choice.
Why do it?

[RonP]

No–Mr Boot, Teslas actually corner quite well because their prodigious weight is positioned so low and central. They do not corner like a car that is 1,000 lbs lighter, but if you look at the curb weight, tire specs, they can surprise the “sport tuned” driver. And the buyers who make up the market for Teslas, typically don’t give a crap about cornering g’s.
All that said, I prefer the feel of a Lotus.

[scotte1]

@RonP

All that said, I prefer the feel of a Lotus.

Never had the pleasure…but they sure do look like fun…

[1cdfoley]

I would love a ride up on Tesla stock! Its funny how bitcoin got tied to Tesla. Don’t mind my mental wandering. Heck even Ford stock price just went up over 100% in the past month.

[bootzilla]

@RonP

Teslas actually corner quite well because their prodigious weight is positioned so low and central.

Thanks, Ron, that is what I thought, but I figured it is safer to not argue too much with @Elk:

[Elk]

This is a good point. Tesla has done as much as they can to keep the weigh low in the car to keep the center of gravity as low as possible. It does not make the weight go away and inertia still wants to push the car to the outside of a corner, but it helps. They also work to maximize trunk space. My understanding is all hybrid and EV manufacturers are getting quite good at battery placement.

[Elk]

I see no problem discussing a specific car or piece of kit as long as the discussion remains on the product and is not criticizing the individual.

I find your opinion below perfectly respectful and acceptable as a post, speaking of the Corvette:

@RonP

The need to carry golf clubs, hence the big ass----ugh

[rower30]

Um, no batteries don’t last too long relative to costs. Lithium batteries have improved to 8 years or 100K miles. The rate of charge damages the Lithium and you either charge more gently or decrease the battery life. The tech is stuck at the anode tech and charge rate. This isn’t hidden away unless you don’t want to be well informed about your purchase.

Would you buy an IC car that has the engine replaced in 100K miles? I don’t think so and a lithium battery pack is equally expensive SUBSIDIZED. SS batteries can go where Lithium left off, but a 300 mile range is not adequate and is for fair weather only. The rate of drain to warm the battery reduces the range in cold weather.

Go here for a 2020 battery replacement analysis; How much does a Tesla Model 3 Battery Replacement Cost? | Current Automotive

In summary; “Parts and labor combined, it cost nearly $16,000 to replace this Tesla Model 3’s battery pack.”

The argument is never about full charge performance, for that get the Porsche. It holds battery current drain most consistently full to depleted charge.

A battery is a chemical reaction and temp increases the batteries internal resistance if not compensated for. No way to get around that…same as an IC engines heat waste. It comes with the tech. When we get it too hot, the ANODE tech starts to fail us and heats up, so batteries are a challenge to hold in their ideal range. The world is far from ideal.

Go here for a 2020 assessment of reality so far.
To what degree does temperature impact EV range? | Geotab

We can make electric cars, but outside of pure acceleration they are not an equal replacement for IC engines across all use and range temperatures. We’ll see hydrogen and hybrid style tech allow adjustments to be made based on temps. IC is still viable with hydrogen sourced, same as electric, “fuel” formed off the electric grid. Look at electricity itself…we have several ways to “manufacture” electricity so a amalgam of solutions seems more likely than not.

If you carefully fit electrics difference and understand the true ownership cost down the road (I’m full of puns) and when the rest of society isn’t paying you for your cars true costs, what’s the problem? Electric is just a choice.

We should be arguing the use patterns and not the reality of the tech. The real world has the limitations to use and fit the purchase to the buyer. I still don’t see the public really understanding all this.

Best,
Galen

[scotte1]

[adifferentpaul]

Recently purchased a vehicle that the trolls love to hate on…but I like it

[scotte1]

Looks like you are a Mitsubishi fan.

Enjoy…

[RonP]

I have a 19 year old niece who is the smartest person she knows. If she’s at home, I’m sure she’s rolling her eyes at a parental comment or opinion right now.
She took her hard earned money and bought a car that was the smartest choice she or anyone could make, a Prius with 128,000 miles----in baby poop brown.
Main hybrid battery was pronounced beyond life support weeks after registering the car.
Battery replacement cost is more than the Blue Book value or purchase price of the car.

[scotte1]

@rower30

We can make electric cars, but outside of pure acceleration they are not an equal replacement for IC engines . . .

Um, so…there are “technical limitations”?

[scotte1]

@rower30

Electric is just a choice.

Decreasingly so, I am afraid…

Policy makers (in the U.S. and elsewhere) have their thumbs on the scale and they are rigging the game, so to speak, to promote an arguably inferior technology over a superior technology for a variety of reasons – none of which are based on one’s “choice”.

[rower30]

One way to consider the limitations is after the quarter mile time, what’s the car doing better the rest, a LOT of the rest, of the time?

For me quarter mile times are immaterial once they are better than 7 sec. TCO, total cost of ownership is what most people are impacted by after the new wears off. And no, a Panamera isn’t the best car for TCO any more than a model 7. Many cars are made for just enjoyment, even if for 2.9 seconds at a time.

Best,
Galen

[hthaller]

I’m kind of looking forward to having an EV at some point in the future - assuming I have enough future ahead of me before they take away the keys _ err, wireless fob). Elon has the right idea - namely that people generally won’t buy an EV just because it’s electric. It has to be a better car (assuming a market free of gub’mint meddling). And “better” includes the twin elephants in the room: batteries and charging stations.

IMHO, the tech is off to a promising start, but has a ways to go. Wilbur and Orville’s first go at aviation was a tad sketchy, but once the proof of concept was out there the technology developed relatively quickly after that. At the moment I could see an EV as a second vehicle for in-town commuting where one charge per week would get you where you needed to go but, for me, long-haul trips in an EV be like . . .

That said, if I was running Marriott, I’d be looking to add charging stations to the parking lots. Back when I traveled in northern Minnesota, many of the motels had plugs for each parking space for engine block heaters in the winter. So the concept is hardly a new one.

[scotte1]

@hthaller

At the moment I could see an EV as a second vehicle for in-town commuting where one charge per week would get you where you needed to go

I share this sentiment. And, this is one of the reasons I have, so far, considered passenger EVs to be a niche product.

Gonna try and step down off of my soap box now.

[scotte1]

@rower30

Many cars are made for just enjoyment, even if for 2.9 seconds at a time.

And that is, indeed, a good thing.

[bruce-in-philly]

Most new/transformative technologies are inferior to the ones they replace… in the beginning. The ICE has been refined for a hundred and some years now… any new tech will have a tough time replacing it. Particularly when it comes to manufacturing en masse… How does new compete when a component can be made in the millions for pennies? When steam trains first arrived, they required teams of horses to help them up grades. But, those in the know, understood their potential. The was true for government support of airline industry… no way could they get it off the ground themselves. Standardizing and granting monopoly to AT&T to develop the national communications system… etc etc. etc. DARPA developing improved protocols for battlefield communications… etc. etc. etc…

Government involvement to push or pull a new tech is not some assault on freedom or the free market… or the acts of neanderthal swamp people… it can be the perfect application of such a force. Hey, I lived in Cleveland Ohio… does anyone remember the Cuyahoga river catching fire? Five times? It took the Federal Government to stop the craziness.

Peace
Bruce in Philly