Totally agree. And I love it when someone talks about phrasing. I’ve studied almost every genre of music and there is not one that I think does a better job with phrasing than vocal jazz. Yeah, can hear the classical lider and art-song people yelling right now, but there’s just something about being free enough to put the emphasis and back off almot whenever, in order to make the text really “sing.” A good friend taught me years ago something about Frank Sinatra, that he swings by NOT swinging. He will choose a very swinging group to work with, like Count Basie, but when you listen to his approach, it is very “straight.” But his phrasing within this straitness combined with the swing of the band produces a kind of swing that’s even better. Very few vocalists have ever even tried to pull that off the same way. Seth MacFarlane is pretty darn good.
And Frank Sinatra learned a lot from Billie Holiday about phrasing and swing.
Hey, I heard a recording last night that led me to another, and another, then another, to where I’m thinking there’s almost a whole genre that seems to produce great recordings that really pull you into the soundstage with wonderfully-captured acoustic instruments. The first recording was the 1978 album Hot Dawg by David Grisman. I’ve been following Grisman since I was in high school. Something he started was what’s sometimes been called “Newgrass,” where the instrumentation is basically bluegrass, but elements of jazz, country, Americana, even a little rock get added in. Grisman was definitely inspired by the “gypsy jazz” of Django Reinhardt and Stephane Grapelli, the latter makes an appearance on a couple of the tracks on Hot Dawg. I’d give you a link, but it’s not on Qobuz or Apple Music. But see if you can find a copy of the CD or vinyl on eBay or similar - just found the CD on Amazon for a good price. I then listened to his album Quintet 80 which is even better in both music and production. It’s not on Qobuz, but is on Apple.
I’m assuming many of you know of Chris Thile, another great mandolinist who also stretches the envelope of the newgrass genre. The recordings of Nickel Creek, which has released seven albums since the early 90s, are fantastic to my ears. Last night I listened to their 2014 album A Dotted Line (Qobuz / Apple) and it’s even better than I remembered.
Then, one of my favorite gypsy jazz guitarists is John Jorgenson. I’ve heard him in concert several times and it is a treat. My favorite album of theirs is the 2007 release Ultraspontane (Qobuz / Apple) - my go-to tracks are “Lucky Sevens” that also shows Jorgenson’s clarinet playing, and “Ghost Dance” which will blow you away with the talent required. I listened for audio quality specifically last night and it does not disappoint.
All this got started when someone sent me a link to a performance by David Grisman, Stephane Grapelli, and Mark O’Connor when they appeared on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson in 1979.
Jon, actually “Quintet ‘80” is on Qobuz. I’ve found searching Grisman on Qobuz a bit annoying. Depending on your artist search, i.e., “David Grisman”, “David Grisman Quintet”, or “The David Grisman Quintet”, you can find different albums.
This link is great for all things Grisman. https://acousticdisc.com/
I somewhat prefer his Quintet albums without flute versus with.
The original DG Quintet album is outstanding, too. One of the few albums I already owned for some time before it got a rave review in an early issue of The Abso!ute Sound. That was the band iteration that included Tony Rice on guitar. I was fortunate to see them during that period, in a concert at Northwestern University. To make it even better, Jethro Burns opened for them, and spotting Steve Goodman in the audience, had him join him onstage.
I tend to forget this one, because as a non-hybrid SACD, it doesn’t live on my server, which means I have to be willing to get up and play discs to hear it. 
A great recording that some might think relies too much on hard L-R panning of instruments, something not done as much since the ‘60s, but I think it adds to the fun quotient quite a bit.
I agree. I’m especially fond of the SACD version of their debut album. Extremely nice!
That’s interesting you say that. I don’t doubt that, but I was listening last night again to the album Songs for Distingue Lovers and her approach to rhythm is very swinging compared to Sinatra’s “straight”. Supposedly she was applying what she’d learned about swing from Louis Armstrong. Maybe what Sinatra learned from her is that the song MUST swing, but they achieve it in different ways? I’ll have to ask my much-more-knowledgeable-about-jazz friend when we meet on Thursday.
I’m reporting what I have read jazz critics and historians state. Certainly Frank learned microphone usage from Billie. And in the early years it is my assessment that Billie let the band swing harder than she did, her phrasing had longer tones and sort of floated.
Thanks, I wasn’t familiar with that one, but I’ve given up on staying 100% up to date on anything! I’ll give it a listen.
Yeah, I get miffed often at Qobuz’s search system. You’d think my searching on “David Grisman” and “Quintet 80” would have it show up. Jeez. I did see several collections of DG stuff that included several of the tracks from Q80.
Very familiar with that one, and there’s an early one also on Rounder. I read that at one point Grisman decided to start his own label purely to get a better sound.
Yeah, I’ve sent a note to my jazz guru friend to see what he says. I think your assessments are right and make sense, just wondering what it is that Sinatra got from Billie other than microphone use (which I’ve also heard about) and just that it NEEDS to swing.
My late brother played that BS&T album so many times you could hear side 2 when playing side 1. Yeah, it’s a bit “hyped” as far as production, but it’s good hype. Tallking elsewhere about Billie Holiday, their version of “God Bless the Child” on that album is great in my opinion.
I personally don’t think it’s “it needs to swing.” I think it’s phrasing more than anything, phrasing that takes advantage of the microphone’s ability to project a gentler, more intimate attack.
Here’s an AI response about Frank and Billie:
Frank Sinatra consistently credited Billie Holiday as the greatest single musical influence on his career. He first encountered her performing in Manhattan’s 52nd Street clubs in the late 1930s and was deeply captivated by her unique vocal phrasing and emotional depth. Sinatra often stated, “It is Billie Holiday who was, and still remains, the greatest single musical influence on me,” a sentiment he expressed in interviews and essays, including one published in Ebony magazine in 1958.
Holiday’s influence was primarily in the realm of phrasing and emotional expression. She taught Sinatra the art of bending notes at the end of phrases—particularly the technique of sliding a tone downward to convey sadness or longing—something he later used sparingly but effectively in ballads like “Yesterdays.” Her ability to internalize lyrics and make songs feel personal and confessional reshaped Sinatra’s approach, helping him transform popular singing from mere interpretation into an intimate, emotionally resonant art form.
What a great synopsis, far better than I could have done. Now I’ve got some things to listen for! Thanks for posting that.
Another few to check out, if you haven’t already: Grisman and Rice put out a CD of duets featuring a variety of vintage guitars and mandolins called Tone Poems. The sound is incredibly good. There was a second one after Rice’s death, with Martin Taylor joining Grisman, called Tone Poems II. And they in turn spawned a multi-disc set with Grisman and a variety of other players called Tone Poets. All worth searching out.
Thanks for the Tone Poems recommendations. I’m pretty sure I’ve heard them at some point, but it all runs together sometimes.
While I’ve got you, I listened last night two two on the female voice list you provided. The Lillie Huddleston recording is very good from a sound standpoint, but I wasn’t overwhelmed with her performance. I need to listen again. Interestingly, she hails from Atlanta, about an hour away from me, but when I looked her up to get more info, another Lillie Huddleston who is a big-time Dr. of psychiatry for autism, who’s ALSO from Atlanta, kept coming up. Since the recording was 2002, it made me wonder whether she’d decided to ditch jazz and do something where she could support a family.
But the one that really blew me away last night is the Diana Jones My Remembrance of You. Incredible music, but man, she was in the room with me. Might be the most intimate vocal recording I’ve heard, or at least tied for 1st place (today).
Another fantastic female voice recording I thought about is the 2025 Noga: Heroes in the Seaweed. I joined David Cheskey’s Audiophile Society ($3 a month) to download hi-res albums for half-price. Some that he’s done for the AS aren’t available for streaming, but this one is on Apple Music. Many of the ones on AS are pretty good - all VERY good for sound - but there are a few not-so-great from a music angle. This one is worth the price of admission.
