I see this spiraling out of control very quickly unless Paul and Co. announce something very soon. They need to be in damage control mode. Any PR firm would tell them that. This is a luxury item in a crowded market with many choices, and you don’t alienate a loyal customer base and signal to future customers they could be in a similar situation one day. The bad publicity writes itself and I see this being all over YouTube and Reddit in the couple of days.
I was just talking to a friend (who alerted me to the YouTube video about the new Dac) He owns some PS gear but not the MKII. This situation has already left a bad taste in his mouth regarding PS for the future.
It seems they are following the Chord UK approach by Rob Watts.
Measurements focus and no firmware updates. Make sure there are no bugs before it walks out the door.
Rob Watts DACs obviously sell well.
Will be interesting to see how good these measurements really are.
Clearly the very average measurements in Stereophile and HiFi News Mags was the tipping point (for DS DAC Mk2)
Ongoing firmware updates means ongoing development costs. They want to stop that obviously
Given this sudden announcement they should do a deal with Ted Smith for 3 more years of updates and wrap things up that way. At least new DS Dac Mk2 owners wont feel so crap.
Is this a “Trust is built in drops and lost in buckets” moment for PS Audio?
One major factor for me to procure the DSD mk2 was the future upgrades, which I assume were factored into the price by PS Audio from the beginning.. as this has been the marketing narrative and major principle for both mk1 and 2.
I think the wise choice now for PSA is to keep the updates coming for a few years to maintain some trust (and customers), see it as an investment.
The new PMG line looks great, but wheres the differentiator for the new DAC? It is “just” another DAC with built in streamer.
It is a sad thing if we don’t get to see the full potential of the mk2 architecture as hoped.
Anyway, I wish you all a nice Easter and let’s enjoy our mk2’s :o)
I find this discussion very interesting and can understand those who feel betrayed by the release of a new product and that the expectation of future upgrades is probably not going to happen. My view seems stilted by my last job before I retired. I was the Quality Manager in a medial device manufacturer. Continual updates to me imply that the product was not finished before release to manufacturing. Yes, no one is going to die if the DAC is not finished. In the 45 years of me upgrading my system - I have only made four purchases of new products. I usually buy used. I don’t have the funds like some forum members do. So I don’t expect updates - I buy the gear for what it is. Of the four purchases, two were due to a dealer complaining the speakers had zero WAF. The others were due to amazing discounts due to being an old model (50% off) or special sales offered to forum members. Unlike most forum members I often go long periods of time before equipment upgrades. The strategy I use to find upgrades is to look for relatively unknown small companies with products that are often listed in reviewers reference systems. That way I take advantage of the low resale value (low number of buyer interest in the used market) and am usually quite happy with my upgrade. The most recent used purchase brands were Aesthetix and TriangleArt. These are very rarely mentioned in this or most audio forums. I think that maybe the decision to break away from the DS MKII design path was the discovery of new design directions that allow greater improvement at better value for PS Audio customers. I think PS Audio products usually provide amazing performance value for the price. This we will probably never know. I hope I am not degrading anyone with this post. I just had to say how different my view was of the whole situation.
Well, the only PS Audio product I own (and can afford) is the Sprout 100. That pretty much makes me an outsider looking in. Watching this company always introducing new lines (like others) it seems to me this was to be expected. I know I did. Heck, wait another year or so and there is going to be the next best thing from PS Audio and folks will be moving on from the PMG or amplifiers or whatever they come up with. It’s a never ending cycle.
I know MKII owners feel left behind. I get it. Reminds me of when I bought a 1080p TV and then 4K came out just a over a year later. I was pissed at the salesman not telling me about it. But I lived on and eventually got my 75" LCD years later. Bottom line is when you buy a product there are no guarantees how long you own it before it becomes obsolete. It sucks but as consumers we just have to deal with it. So just enjoy what you have and don’t think past it.
Agreed. And nobody could say the Mk. II they currently own suddenly sounds worse (or becomes worthless) because it’s being replaced and/or not being updated further.
I value my “things,” and especially my money, too much to treat a DAC as a throwaway purchase. If I owned a Mk. II, I’d be content with it as is until I’d be buried in the grave with it. Sure I’d like to upgrade, but I have other major expenses this year. Do I want the new DAC? Sure. But I don’t have deep pockets and won’t buy anything on credit, so it will be a while until it finds a home here.
The negative thoughts about the new DAC also confuse me. I heard it literally for hours at the show, as recently as yesterday. We shouldn’t knock it until we’ve heard it.
Thank you for this post. Like you, I don’t have the disposable income that some folks here do, I have had my speakers for 20 years and my BHK preamp and 250 amp for nine, and they aren’t going anywhere. Your strategy of looking at less well known companies whose products are used by reviewers is clever and has served you well!
I don’t expect sonic upgrades with most products. The DS DACs are an exception, though. Basing a design on FPGA provides for future improvements – very different than using a chip whose design is locked in by some other company. The designer (Ted Smith) came up with a good-sounding initial release and then was able to refine it as he worked on it more. The DAC was not “finished” as other products are, and that appealed to me; I didn’t see it as a negative at all. The Mk2 got double the FPGA capacity of the Mk 1. This seemed to indicate that there was good potential for further development of the DS DAC (and I hope that will happen in some way). So I am one of those who is disappointed to see the product discontinued after only 2.5 years.
Absolutely correct, Magister. We can update for fixes and maybe for updates sonically but because the main architecture is hard coded into PureStream we can’t improve upon it. The SpectraWave 64 Sequencer that follows the PureStream engine, on the other hand, can and likely will be able to be programmed.
I believe the double FPGA in the MkII was a result of pandemic supply chain limitations rather than a conscious decision for expansion. It was then marketed as having great potential. Combine this with ever greater update-produced performance certainly established an atmosphere of expectation and no wonder folks are disappointed. Now a trade war threatens the next generation. I am sure PS Audio will do the best they can.
It is really sad to see the sonic development for the MKII being halted. It is a bit like the “Mo-Fi” moment of the MKII lovers. We’ve bought into the idea of continuous development as an added value, like Mo-Fi buyers bought into the idea of true analog processing of the recording, from master-tape to their personal vinyl copy. Both paid a premium for what they thought is important to them and sets the value proposition apart from other options on the market. When you find out that the original reason why you did the purchase (and for some of us for paying the premium) has not been matched by the vendor, it is a painful wake-up to reality. For some of us the DAC is a fundamental piece of our audio system and there is a logic why we would carefully add further PS Audio components to the audio chain. Leaving the MKII at its current development stage also means leaving the whole audio chain at its current development stage, because nothing would have such a positive impact on the sound as improving the DAC’s capabilities once you are all bought into PS Audio. And no, I would not change a nearly $40K system because a new series has arrived. Especially not with the absence of DAC upgradability. So here we are, now we can relate to Mo-Fi vinyl lovers.
My recollection is that the DSD MK1 was nearly running out of FPGA gates with the latter baselines and that, more than anything, was limiting the potential for further enhancements. With that restriction in mind, Ted designed the DSD MK2 with plenty of FPGA capacity - more than twice what was needed to host the initial releases. My impression, and I believe others, was that the FPGA sizing would ensure that the MK2 did not face similar limitations in its lifecycle.
