Before I have go out. 6 weeks /1000 hours with DS1: so I decided to run DS2 the same length of time in the garage knowing it would leave the garage on song – I had no inclination to listen critically to DS2 when DS1 was doing the business for me in my system. I was looking to make life easier the second time around and with the third time too.
With your jr, I meant you run it with Snowmass, and, play, the real hi - (12 inch variety) – res! Good load is easy: I achieved it through touch, smell, and osmosis.
The DS runs with ice running through its veins hence it takes a LONG time to burn-in. When I removed the iffy main board and associated parts there was zero heat discolouration or transfer to any component. Ted is the Albert Collins of Computer Scientists. The old DS main board looked as fresh as the new board I was installing. Heat would help with burn-in. Ted has builtin a heating element from an electric fire into the TSS to reduce burn-in time…
I lately often get confused in this respect, due to D vs. A stuff getting so Close these days. When we are playing the 12" shizz, it is a Fully Analog chain, and the DAC ain’t got nothin’ to do with it.
In my system I found that on many recordings Snowmass sounds equal to or better than Windom when played direct into the DS, but Windom sounds better than Snowmass with the BHK Preamp in the chain. Windom without the Pre renders instruments and voices cleanly but sometimes unnaturally detached from each other. With the Pre, the instruments and voices still occupy clearly identifiable positions on the stage, but the overall sound seems more “full and together” and more convincing as a real assembly of musicians sharing the same stage. With Windom, I more fully appreciate the BHK Pre in the chain and would not be happy without it.
I have a DSJ and feel that Windom changes are quite dramatic in a positive manner. Are there other DSJ owners who have not sensed an improvement in the sound quality?There is less harshness/stridency to the sound. More delineated space for instruments. There is more cohesion to what I hear and in general a more musical and especially nonfatiguing overall sound signature.
There is a mystery afoot. We all seem to agree that Snowmass was great. With Windom, most feel that it’s a better version of Snowmass, taking all the wonderful elements to a new level of wonderful. And a minority that prefer Snowmass. I loaded Windom again (perhaps the 8th time) last night on my DSJ (no preamp). I could live with Windom’s more detailed higher end, and the bass is quite good, but the midrange sounds thin compared to Snowmass. After 30 minutes, back to Snowmass I went.
At this point, with Ted making it clear that reverting to a previous version, and then going to Windom makes the odds very low for a bad load, I think bad loads can’t be the issue except for people who haven’t followed this thread. And I can’t imagine a good Windom load requires months of burn in.
I wonder why, with the agreed upon base of Snowmass, there are such divergent experiences with Windom? I read the pro Windom comments and wish that was my experience, but its simply not. Could it be that more noise sounds better to some? Is vinyl inherently more noisy than CD? Just wondering if noise is always a bad thing when it comes to musicality?
Setting bad loads and burn in aside, what else could account for the very different Windom experiences, especially in the light of everyone liking Snowmass?
Everybody’s downstream gear including cables are different so changing DS firmware is going to get the same result as everybody changing the same single piece of gear and leaving everything else the same.
There’s no real mystery: every release of the software for the DS and DS Jr has had some that prefer older releases. Snowmass was the most successful release in this sense, many fewer decided to stay with older releases. It’s perfectly expected and normal.
People have different listening preferences and that can explain it right there.
People might have tweaked their systems to accommodate a previous release and then Windom could be also “fixing” the same problem again giving confusing results.
People need to simply think of each software release like getting a new preamp, amp, speakers, etc. They may well have to rethink some previous tweaks since some older problems are now fixed and perhaps some new ones have shown up.
I don’t understand how if Windom is more of the best of Snowmass, and if our systems have remained the same, then why isn’t that “best or, more of” Snowmass more consistently conveyed? If Windom inherently has a more full, robust, non-fatiguing highs sound, then why do I experience almost the opposite with the exact same gear that Snowmass had?
Seems Snowmass was full and rich, Windom is more full and rich, so why is 1 + 1 not always equaling 2?
After all the hoopla I think I have Windom dialed in. My ears are probably shot, but what I noticed most is the separation of instruments, which in my opinion is pretty cool. I’m enjoying this Windom sound quite a bit right now.
I’m not trying to pick on anyone here, everyone is welcome to their own preferences, but a couple of examples:
One fellow didn’t like Snowmass [Edit - or maybe he didn’t the DS itself, I can’t remember for sure] because “it added too much reverb to everything.” Most of us perceive that same thing to be allowing us to hear more detail like the hall, etc. But for him it was clearly distracting. You can imagine a continuum of preferences from 0 reverb to 1,000,000’s of springs in a box reverb, most of us want something in the middle, but we probably disagree with what’s right or even if the producer, etc. used artificial reverb and if so, how much.
A couple of people have complained that Windom isolates instruments too much, others perceive this as more accurately portraying the original soundstage or giving each instrument more space… Once again you can imagine some liking a little of that effect and staying on Redcloud, some liking a little more and preferring Snowmass and others preferring Windom.
Because your system and preferences are different than others. Perhaps when the phase of everything is more aligned then something in your listening area has a sympathetic vibration. Perhaps one of your preamp, amp, speakers is being a little more overdriven and distorting more because, for example, better phase alignment gives truer, but higher peaks or for example Windom appears quieter to most so you might be turning it up a little louder to get the same perceived loudness but now the highs are too hot (or being distorted more somewhere else.) It’s probably not these things, but it’s not a mystery of Windom, it could also happen with a new preamp, etc. in your system.
Hi Ted,
I guess that’s me, I wrote that for the Snowmass V1 (3.00). I was comparing to Snowmass’s later revision, 3.05. To me, 3.00 added too much reverb and 3.05 was just about right. After that I updated to 3.06 and I liked it more than 3.05 so I’d been using it until Windom is released.
Now, I’m happy with Windom. In my system, Windom outperforms Snowmass 3.06.
But it wasn’t straightforward. When I first installed Windom, I felt brightness, it was cleaner and more separation than Snowmass, but overall sound was a bit too forward. I thought it’s a matter of preference. So I went back to Snowmass 3.06. But then I realized I can’t enjoy much with it as I used to. Everything seems to be shrunk. I don’t know how to describe.
I updated to Windom again, and I am very happy. I’ll never go back.
I love my DS. This is the best DAC I’ve ever owned.
Exactly. With Snowmass I also liked to change firmwares at times and 3.06 was clearly superior once I got it right. Now that Windom is here,it is so much better than any Snowmass and I got it right at first time I loaded it. Pure and simple the best sound so far. No need to go back and compare. So obvious.
When we get other Windoms 4.04, 4.05 and maybe 4.06…that´s another story like with Snowmass
With Windom my volume levels for normal listening without pre went from 36 or so to 42. And I can go all the way to insane levels without distortion now. Not the case with Snowmass.
@Dirk You will have to let us know your perception vs your friends on his equipment. It will be interesting. As someone else said the differences are most likely in the downstream equipment - including the room. Here the difference was so great and immediate that there was no reason to AB test.
Vern
