Thanks Mark
I guess it must be wire gauge
Yes - in part. Impedance and so on comes into it as well. Carts are a very small signal compared to line level.
From what I recall the VPI turntable, at least early VPI Prime era with the 3D tone arm offered Discovery wires with Nordost as an upgrade, the Discovery Plus 4. Very good, BTW. The Audio Sensibility is also very good IMO, I am presently using Nirvana SX-LTD to good effect. Cart is Ortofon Cadenza Black.
Dang - that Black is low OP!
Lots of confusion on this one and easy to understand why. The cable is really a part of the system on a turntable! Yep… phono is loading the cartridge with the resistance or capacitance needed for a flatter response. Some are VERY sensitive to resistance (MM low outout types usually like to be around 100-500 ohms) and some are more sensitive to total capacitive load (MM types are designed for 47 k-ohm (basically infinity) and total capacitance specific to that cartridge and yes, this is the whole lead!).
There are designs (GRADO) that are less sensitive to capacitance and many more twists to how the cable loads the higher frequency response curve peaks.
The IC leads impact BOTH attributes but MC less so than MM as capacitance is pF/foot and the DCR isn’t too high in short reach cables.
The 1x4 RCA is best for MM and MC since it uses finer wire to mitigate the Vp issue we have in our audio cables. We raise the DCR to flatten the Vp curve some. This benefits both cartridge types moving the signal from the table to the head amp. Our head amps are best to “load” the cart either with resistance or capacitance by ear to the nicest spot.
OK, that’s the signal wire. What about the GROUND? Unbalanced outputs are as good as the grounds differential. Any noise in the grounds (hum) or that gets through the braid (RF) adds directly to the signal as it is the same “mode”. To keep that to a bare minimum, we need a shield designed for RF (here a foil and drain works!) but also to DCR and this says a low resistance braid.
Foil is great for more static and RF specific apps, but aluminum can crack and deteriorate with flexing. Bend an Aluminum bar a few time and see. It breaks. A double braid is equal to a foil+braid (around 100 dB isolation) and far more durable and…has lower DCR for low frequency requirements that use the shields DCR to lessen noise. A signal in the braid times a lower resistance to ground is less noise. RF is “shielded” and attenuated before it get inductive coupled to the center wire and uses what is called Transfer Impedance across frequency to describe the attenuation properties. It is in milli-ohms/meter.
I have papers on all this for those interested in the graphs and numbers. Just ask as usual. ICONOCLAST is designed to the way it all works every where possible as job one.
Go here Hagerman Technology LLC: Cartridge Loading
…and see why and how the cable changes things in a MM and MC cartridge. Like ICONOCLAST, this is all about the science of the circuits R, L and C values and frequencies. This site does a great job on the physics of all this.
Best,
Galen Gareis
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Thanks Galen. Nice to know that I can use your 1X4 for the turntable.
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Also, being an old marketing type, I would suggest that this be mentioned on your website in the description of the 1X4
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The sound is fantastic, my other low output mc is a Denon DL-304 at 0.18mv. I have used it off and on with a Denon AU-S1 MC transformer, solid, silent and sweet.
Here is an image:
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I’m a fan of low output MCs. Don’t ask me why, aside from the fact that it seems the Lower I Go, the Better it Gets.
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You must be a limber fella 
Seriously, though the inner detail, transients, and room ambience are just right. Even for a cheapo cart.
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How Low…Can You GO?
These days, low enough, but not that low… 
Are you talking capacitance here?
millivolts out at .18mv. Capacitance does not play much of a role as far as MC loading.
The Denon DL -304 is loaded to 100 ohm. I don’t recall what I’ve loaded the Cadenza Black to, it’s been a while, possibly in the 180-220 ohm range.
The Smiley Cowboy Face was to defer to Galen or whomever knows if it is Impedance, Capacitance, The Mojo Hand, or whathaveyou.
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Ron,
Good point.We do mention the needed low DCR braid but…we should mention the need especially for phono where the signal level is VERY small and noise is the exact same level, thus the ratio of noise to signal is worse and worse as the signal is small. A big OUCH! We hear the difference between noise and signal. The phono signal can be as small as 0.0025 volts or 400X less than line-level (about 1 volt) and the noise is always the same. So guess what? That ground is REALLY important.
I’ll see what we can sneak-in there on phone applications.
Best,
Galen
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Go with the specs to start each cartridge is going to be different.
- MC generally responds to resistance.
- MM generally responds to capacitance.
I use a SUMIKO Blackbird high output MC and I love it’s bouncy nature. It can be a tad splashy up top once and awhile. My Benx Ruby Z low output is almost too good and smooth. It never dares to offend so it doesn’t impress over the source either. This with a PASS LABS XP-25 so loading is easy.
See the above mentioned site for WHY we load cartridges differently. It in there. They explain it better than I can or need to.
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Thanks Galen and Bob for the excellent design and customer service.
I have enjoyed the SPTPC speaker cables feeding my mains for some time. I don’t know why it took me so long to replace my 20 year old Siltech jumper cables from my main speakers to my super tweeters. I guess I figured it would not make a significant enough difference. I must confess I was wrong.
The biggest positive improvement was in coherence, imaging, followed by greater liquidity, resolution and detail without sounding etched or dry. I was listening to Qobuz, Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong, “Isn’t This a Lovely Day” at about 5:20in as they begin to sing together you can more clearly distinguish changes in pitch as his voice softens and trails off as hers begins.
The cables were definitely a worthwhile investment. My Mid-Fi system is getting closer to sounding like my reference, which is my friends Boulder and T&A systems.
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I was asked a good question…if Vp linearity changes are real, how do we see the effect in a cable design? Very good question. We need to look at the IMPEDANCE trace that is influenced by Vp. At low frequencies the Vp equation is;
The top data trace below is a representation of what Vp does with frequency. We can slightly TUNE the trace to better make it more coherent (same properties at all frequencies) by manipulation capacitance and resistance.
The bottom trace is a good heavy 1313A 10 AWG ZIP cord, a good reference design. ICONOCLAST improves the coherence with Vp changes that keep the low frequencies impedance lower. As Vp drops the impedance goes UP. This causes a larger speed differential in the analog cable through the audio band.
We’d like to limit that impedance (hold the same Vp) change with a Vp that doesn’t drop as much at lower frequencies, and this should lower the cable impedance. Do we see that effect?
Higher Vp in the low end lowers the cable impedance as the 1313A shows. As we go UP in frequency the effect of Vp change is harder to come by and the change isn’t as evident. We start to see the limiting Vp of the dielectric (Vp= 1/SQRT(e)) so the value will converge on that dielectric property. The physics won’t let us change it as easily up high and the data tells us that. We see a slight decrease in the high frequency impedance because the Vp is higher and closer to the limiting dielectric speed (69% for solid FEP) but the overall trace is more coherent in ICONOCLAST as the design improved the low-end linearity. Since ICONOCLAST uses FEP, the Vp is 69% verses 1313A that uses solid PP at 66%, this accounts for the lower impedance of ICONOCLAST up high as the higher FEP’s Vp drops the impedance. Again, it is all in the science.
ADDED - we use FEP to allow a CLOSER wire spacing to lower inductance (tighter wire spacing is needed to lower inductance, dielectric doesn’t matter) even through this lowers the impedance at the high end. But, we still get a better BALANCE as we drop the low end impedance. We can’t forget our other electrical missions in the overall cable.
The ICONOCLAST trace does show a more uniform Vp across the audio band based on the IMPEDANCE trace verses 1313A. The use of numerous and smaller (higher DCR) wires along with a different capacitance changes the Vp and makes the impedance lower and the cable more coherent.
Everything is tied together in cable R, L and C. Some will say more wires improves the “bass” and this is why this is commented on like that. It does influence the lower frequency response more. But like it or not, Vp will go to “zero” at DC and the limiting dielectric speed at RF. We never have complete control.
Does this effort help? The use of true cable parameters should overlay a better in-use experience as a better and better balance is achieved. It is true that I feel a more uniform Vp linearity is very important to how a cable’s voice is removed from the system.
Best,
Galen
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Hi @rower30 (Galen). So I’d been reading this thread, like I’m sure many others, and learning all kinds of great stuff about different varieties of cable, including Ethernet. But as I’ve been planning my Ethernet infrastructure in my new home, I’ve run into a bit of a head scratcher.
My network is based on a 400mbps service. When I started spending time in this house (before my permanent move just a few weeks ago), I bought some highly rated random CAT6 cable from Amazon. Various lengths, strewn about the house just to get a basic system wired up. Nothing run through the walls as yet. I was happy to see via Ookla’s Speedtest hitting various servers that I was hitting ~400mbps or even a bit more. Consistently.
After reading last year some posts here about the Belden tested CAT6 offerings from Blue Jeans, I decided to try some. I bought a few pieces, to discover to my dismay that for each one of them (all of which had exemplary test data provided) I couldn’t do better than 260-270mbps. I tested against the same servers that gave me the higher number with this other stuff from Amazon. Tested it many times. I always got these consistently lower numbers. I actually even tried other (different) CAT6 cables that I had in my stash for some years, and they too gave me the higher numbers.
So I bring this up now as I’m planning to run in wall Ethernet to lay out my permanent infrastructure, and for as much as I’ve loved and used other Belden products over the years (including my Iconoclasts of course 
), I’m a little hesitant to go with cables that seem to produce markedly lower speeds as my embedded infrastructure. Help requested.
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