Belden ICONOCLAST Interconnects and Speaker Cabling

The Series IITPC seemed to take awhile to settle and run in. Actually a wild ride. Perhaps the higher fidelity and expansive soundstage has something to do with it. I too still wish to trial Series I and II in SPTPC bi-wire. My last listening experience was truly the most amazing I have ever had after dabbllng in power cables that address high frequency RF.

The capabilities of the iconoclast speaker cables seem to achieve better balance and haunting real images and realistic as well as psychedelic effects when music has been mixed that way.

I am thinking @tony22 might still see some change but I never got along with OFE Speaker wires but the ICs were a step up. But every system has its own needs It would be curious to have OFE on the bottom.

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I would call Bob and see if you can get all the copper variants to demo and hear for yourself.

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I agree with your assessment regarding the early TPC and SPTPC, but for my system the OFE exposed a bit more “tonal color” to what I was hearing. As to the Series II, I’m honestly not sure if the SP variant can go much beyond what the new TPC is doing already (knowing I could be quite wrong, of course :smile:). The SII TPC already goes to the Moon in frequency extension, and has qualities that go beyond what the SI SPTPC had, so right now I’m thinking the SP variant could be “too much of a good thing”, unless a system has a very warm, closed character about it. But pure speculation on my part.

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We are working on the SPTPC copper pricing in a revolving door of economic stability. As soon as a price is given, it is obsolete the next day. We’ll get there one way or another…they have to sell material eventually! The OFE will be last based on marketing demands. The cable is $$$ to make (you have no idea how good a deal this is for you) and the TPC and SPTPC isn’t all sold at once so we are in the hole a bunch for awhile. All the cable is paid for, sold or not. Once we get sales going, we can look at the OFE. We can’t absorb carrying inventory charges on all three at the same time.

As the designs get better, the changes to the copper have less and less an influence on the sound, too. Don’t judge the cable on previous designs, start over again . You may not be as SOLD as you think. Things will shuffle around a bit. All three coppers will be liked, but not based on the series I order of things as the sound and the value equations aren’t the same as before.

Remember, the tested electrical data to experimental statistics will be the same with all coppers. We pass the higher cost through on single, long grain and standard copper so user’s can listen and decide what’s best. We sell the data and the material cost are superimposed into the same designs so you can evaluate the copper.

I use TPC on my CWT1000-40 bi-wire (Series I bottom, Series II top) and it is anything but bright. Trust me, those big electrostatic tweeter panels know bright!

FOOD FOR THOUGHT
I have an Pass Labs XP-30 preamplifier and a T+A P3100HV and the XP-30 is more “romantic” but is also more deficient in tonal detail, dynamics and balance. Not terribly, but noticeably. It depends on what you listen to which you’ll like.

At first, I was used to the more ethereal quality of the XP-30, and no reason not to be. But after using the P3100HV I can’t go back to the XP-30 anymore. I keep missing the music more than the effect! The P3100 sound more REAL more of the time, so much so that it isn’t noticeable…that’s good!

The XP-30 sounds real less often, but when it does it jumps out at you. That’s good, too, but I’d rather have it be real most of the time not some of the time.

As good as the XP-30 is, the P3100HV is better more often and for the right reasons. Spatial placement, dynamics and timber balance are all improved. It should be as much as it cost, though. The P3100HV makes every source sound like a new mix because I hear so many more nuanced musical contrasts. Once I hear them I can’t un-hear them!

Give your stuff a chance, the better item will push other things aside. At first I was thinking I liked the XP-30’s signature sound better, Turns out I don’t like the XP-30 as well when I went off the P3100 HV after eight hours and back to the XP-30. We are loss averse and the P3100HV gives me more, always.

If I’m on a narcotic for a tooth ache, the XP-30’s softer and more floaty sound will do…if I’m listen to music the P3100HV is a must.

Best,
Galen

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Okay, Galen, fair enough. I just hope the OFE does get produced. In the meantime, @BobBJC, please shoot me an email to let me know when a pair of SPTPC identical to the TPC you sent me becomes available. As always, as in my career as an EE, due diligence is warranted. They will all get a listen.

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Can you ballpark/swag when you think they will be available? Q3? Q4?

Reading through your postings, what comes across to me is your excitement and that you are having a great time. I hope this is true.

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My guess is Q3 soonest because we need to GET the copper! UGH. That will put us out a good bit right there with the supply chain so busted. But, we’ll be as fast as we can…immediate service no matter how long it takes, right?

It’s always fun to get people things for a fair price that provide so much enjoyment for such a long time. It is frustrating working with the new normal(s) one on the way out (COVID), and one on the way in (war fed economy). Both are so hard on people.

AXPONA, I hope we hang on to this year’s event, will be nice to see some of you and after all, this is all “my” fault. If there ever was one guy you can nail, that would be me. Ya, we’re a small company.

Best,
Galen

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Will do!! No worries.

Late Q-3 sounds good to me.

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Audiophiles who chose REL subwoofers we be interested in Jeff’s latest creation. Here is an image of our BAV Series II, REL subwoofer cable. This uses 4-conductor Belden 1310A cable, hand terminated with a Neutrik “NI4” Speakon connector and gold plated copper welded spades. He uses both negatives together to “preserve the star quad configuration for lower inductance and better EMI rejection.” Each cable assembly is thoroughly tested before packaging. This is a far better cable assembly than what comes with the REL subs.

I’m working on having this added to our site with pricing. A Series II speaker cable will also be added to the BAV family along side 1313A. Until then, we can quote personally for both the sub and traditional speaker cables for what length you specify.

I’m hoping Galen will add to the benefits of the 1310A “star quad” speaker cable as a part of our BAV offerings.

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I hated the Iconoclast Series II TPC speaker cables, or more accurately how my system initially sounded with them.

I have listened to my system with the Series One TPC, OFC and SPTPC cables. Recently I swapped the Series II TPC in for the SPTPC speaker cables, which I optimized my system set up around for several years. My speakers are a stand mount MTM design with dual 5.25’’ drivers and are not bi-wirable. Speakers are supplemented by super tweeters connected by SPTPC cable and placed on top of each speaker, and a six pack of REL G1 Subs. I wanted to form my own impressions and deliberately avoided all Series II reviews and feedback given on the PS Audio forum. Listening took place over 4 weekends as this was all my schedule allowed. A constant low level signal was feed to the speakers between listening sessions.

Initial impressions; the Series II soundstage was more forward and wider, but exaggerated and weakened the center image. Lower bass notes found in cello and pipe organ recordings were gone. There was less information and detail in the high frequency range. Horns had slightly greater plat, but the overall sound was grainy, without real presence. Weekend #2, the system sound like a pair of cheap PA horns squawking at me. The screeching caused me to question my 45 year existence as an audio enthusiast, and if it was time to give up the hobby. The vocal tones were much thinner and higher than natural.

Weekend #3, I took a deep breath and committed to making changes to the system. My hope was to not replicate, but to exceed what I heard with the SPTPC cable. I planned to return the Series II TPC Cable to Blue Jeans if things did not improve. Carefully switching one system element at a time back and forth making A/B listening comparisons. I used the remote to change the crossover frequency and volume on 4 of the six subs. I swapped Shunyata power cords out for Belden Iconoclasts cords to my monoblock amps, changed the settings on my P15 power regenerator, and changed the ambience settings and toe on my speakers. All of which improved natural tonality in instruments and voices. Weekend #4, I pushed the super tweeters back from the front baffle ¼ then ½ inch. Which deepened the soundstage, improved micro detail, clarity, instrument and vocal separation. What still remained was a bit of grain and slightly less presence in the vocals from what I recalled with the SPTPC cables. Lastly I elevated from the carpet the single connecting cable for the ambient system to my Van L. Speakerworks speakers. This one change eliminated the remaining grain, added more musical detail, presence and realism than I had ever heard before. Yes, the Series II TPC can be that revealing.

The end result: The Series II TPC is now my preferred cable. The Series II TPC cables noticeably surpass every cable in most attributes. I can hear more of the end and decay of vocals and notes as they soften and trail away. I can hear the mix when tracks are added and overlayed in recordings like Billy Joel’s song Street life Serenader. Something I had only heard on my electrostatic speakers. There is greater air space separating instruments within the soundstage, better note leading edge, and kick to the drums. With the Series II cable I enjoy discovering new minute subtle nuances in long familiar recordings.

The Series II TPC cable most likely will be the last cable I ever own, unless Galen comes up with another breakthrough cable design. I believe by nature every man is basically greedy. So I look forward to hearing a Series II SPTPC cable if they are released. I sold all of my Siltech cables. I am done with the ubiquitous cable purveyors. My monster quest for transparent cable is done. I have zero interest in Nordost. As an audio enthusiast the introduction of the Iconoclast Cable line has significantly elevated my enjoyment of recorded music. Consider me an Iconoclast Evangelist.

As I write this I note Bob’s posting there is a new BAV x2 REL cable. I’m tempted to see if it will surpass my Bassline Blue cable. Who is it that said, “I keep trying to get out and they keep pulling me back in.”

My thanks to Galen, Bob and Blue Jeans.

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Jeff: have you compared your new REL BAV cable to the Bassline Blue Cable?

Great review! The first couple hundred hours are a roller coaster Lucky for me my first night was pure magic. I knew they’re better.

I then wrestled with changing DSP. Did a couple of times. Always for the better. The series II keep stepping up and breaking in. They really trash what your previous thoughts of power cables were making you pursue balance.

You soon realize your journey previously was HiFi not true fidelity. Just sparkle, hit you in the face and full of artificial substitutes for true music. Clarity, natural sound stage and purity of music is revealed by series II. You listen for recording space versus hit you in the face. Music is not forward but in-front and surrounds you with ambient detail that surrounds.

Be it voice, brass, woodwind, string or percussion. Soft or dynamic. These cables just produce music that sounds real. Not reproduce music that sounds unreal.

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I’ve lost track of the cost of the Series II. I’d need a 2M pair.

Thanks!

Pray tell, of the means for adjusting ambience.

TIA

(PS, great post)

PM sent

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No listening tests as of yet- If you want to be our guinea pig I would be happy to send one your way. We will definitely be beating them on price, and I think overall specs (though the descriptions are a tad vague on the REL site)

I’d be up for a comparo against AudioQuest’s which I have. :face_with_peeking_eye:

People ask about run in and for the break-in thoughts. The series II speaker cables as 48 separate wires with HALF the current in each wire as the series I with 24 separate wires. So technically if we count the “amp hours” series II take twice as long to reach the same duty cycle as the series I. What ever you felt was needed on the series I will be double on the series II speaker cable. Everyone seems to report varying levels of break-in but for YOUR case with the series I, double that with the series II.

And 100% yes, the sound stage is far more like real music in it’s balance. No, it isn’t making “amazing” except that it let’s you hear the source better. If that’s amazing now you can hear it! The variation in source material will get BIGGER with the series II and that bugs some people until you realize the “dynamic range” is wider and can convey the micro-dynamics some more. Toss some terrible stuff through them and it seems way less terrible as it takes on a proper 3D sound stage for the first time. Try Herman’s Hermits Best of CD!

The math says the changes are “too small” (we are talking the speed of an EM wave after all, and it is fast!) to hear the improved Vp linearity, but I then ask what are we hearing that makes the changes? Did I change the Vp alignment so carefully and it is something else" As consistently as the speaker cable improves looking and designing to the numbers, I doubt it. We can hear the numbers.

In my system I don’t hear the changes over time but I use mono amp leads that are 4 feet (shortest I’d recommend you use) leads.

Best,
Galen

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Does Audio Quest offer a Speakon connector, REL specific subwoofer cable?

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