I’ve gotta say that I love the BAV REL cables on my stereo pair of T5/i woofers.
To my ears it was a nice improvement with bass being both a bit tighter and lower. Switching the cables has had me readjusting the balance between the mains (Magnepan LRS) and the RELs.
I should also say that I’ve enjoyed the BAV 2 “star quad” speaker cables, a vast improvement over the BJC 10 awg wires I was previously using.
Bob, Jeff and Galen were a joy to work with as I was asking for something that wasn’t officially cataloged yet.
Yes, the ambience option is fairly unique to these speakers. You can read more about it here if you would like. Van L Speakerworks, Chicago, High End, Tube amp, soundstage. When in Chicago check them out for yourself and say hello to John. He is an Iconoclast Dealer and a character.
I typically demonstrate my speakers with the ambient circuit on and then off, or vice versa. Everyone has preferred it on. There are 4 posts which allow you to adjust the strength of ambience. Right now I prefer it’s lowest setting.
With the circuit in the highest setting, with the right music and enough auditory acuity people comment the sound is more live and almost envelopes them. You can hear sounds to your immediate right and left. One person commented they thought music was coming from behind them. With age and after so many poor decisions in my youth. I no longer have that kind of acuity.
It is great for performances recorded live on stage especially if you prefer imagining yourself being on stage. With certain tracks by Yello, with the Iconoclast SPTPC cable, the ambience circuit on and the REL Sub stack it almost feels like the music is near your head. Some people may not prefer that much intimacy in which case you can leave the ambience off and the speakers still sound great.
This weekend I’ll experiment more with the Iconoclast Series II TPC and the higher ambience settings. I have a feeling the revealing nature, clarity, micro detail, presence, speed, and big soundstage of the Series II will blow things up to unreal and distracting proportions. However, it will be interesting and entertaining for a time.
“If you want to be our guinea pig”
Yes, I will take you up on your offer if it still stands. I feel I should run this by Bob and make sure he’s on board, and we can work on the details and agreements. Thanks
For years I considered Van L speakers as some of the best I’ve heard. They completely disappeared leaving a crazy palpable performance. His Quartets are a steal for the money. I didn’t know he deals with Iconoclast. I’ll have to stop by for a listen.
David Janszen demonstrated a similar, but perhaps more sophisticated and expensive system in my home several years ago: BACCH4Mac | Theoretica Applied Physics.
The BACCH device works extremely well and way better than the ambience settings in the speakers. However, the speakers do not rely on DSP. I did not feel I would enjoy the BACCH long term, enough to justify the extra cost, equipment wiring, and did not want to rely on their DAC. I like the work of PS Audio and Ted Smith too much.
I’m good to go on this. Please PM me so I can identify who I am conversing with and work out the details. Thank you for giving John at Van L Speakerworks a nice plug. John has been with us since the very early days. He dropped out for a bit with some health issues but seems to be strong and back at it, full bore! A great person and from what I understand makes a very fine speaker. Iconoclast is all he uses for demonstration purposes.
Please do stop by. It’s a working speaker repair business and build shop. Therefore, walking into Van L. Speakerworks is like walking into a speaker time machine. You will see speakers there you have only read about. Last time I was there he had a pair of Plasma speakers, and a pair of Genesis speakers.
Thanks for sharing this. The packaging images do not reflect a Speakon and “3” conductors in a quad star configuration as required by a REL sub. Can you post a cell phone image of the cable assembly? What “is” a “double” star quad, noise-dissipation speaker cable? “Terminated for Full-Range.” ??? subwoofer cable.
Perhaps the best approach is to have you order a BAV Series II, REL specific subwoofer cable on “approval” and let you make the choice which is the best sounding cable. We won’t consider the cost comparison, only the sound quality and the build quality of the assembly.
By the way, I did spend a lot of time on the AQ website. I was amazed that there was a “Black Lab, Boxer, Greyhound, Husky and IrishRed” series of just “subwoofer” cables. This practice seems to be prevalent amongst the big players. And, they seem to change models every few years. How do they do this? Wow!
Their site is soo confusing. The marketer’s are having fun I’m sure! (My daughter has her business degree in marketing haha). I will post a photo of the cable soon.
Here they are. I use the BHK300 so different setup than usual REL cable guideline.
FYI I am using the REL Bassline Blue connections for my six packs so it is a hybrid cable setup. Will BJC be offering those as well? I’ve used BJC products in my theatre room.
Great images and beautiful REL subs. Let it be known, that the cable assembly is not the “recommended” by REL configuration and is different from what we would be sending. Is there a jumper involved?
Taking this off line, please send me an email to bhoward@iconoclastcable.com and we can go from there. I will get you a subwoofer assembly to compare.
My dealer will be visiting to discuss power cables once the subwoofers are fully broken in. Many new components in the chain right now. All cooking well so far.
Thanks!
I can certainly accommodate that type of setup, will need to do some research to determine the correct wiring scheme for all of the connections. And of course as the good Dr suggests, we can help with power cords as well!
Star quad work well for sub cables, or low frequency in general, for a great price. Why?
-) low frequencies have a VERY deep skin effect penetration. This means we can use stranded or larger AWG sizes and not worry about Vp linearity as it is pretty flat across 500 Hz and below frequencies.
-) Using a star quad lowers inductance with field cancellation AND wire proximity effects, both. This gets a better inductance value than an equivalent AWG zip cord or twisted pair design.
-) We can SPLIT the 10 AWG aggregate CMA area into four equal CMA area wires to make the star quad arrangement. Cross wire each “pair” to double up the CMA wire area.
-) capacitance will go up in a star quad (more parallel plate area with four wires), but it isn’t going to be high enough to make modern amplifiers unstable. Capacitance does lower the first order filter model roll off frequency, but it is still WAY high in the MHz region so that isn’t the problem.
The problem is the amplifiers ability to drive a reactive load (speaker + cable, both). If the reactance is too high, use of flat type ribbon cable that are long capacitors (3,000 pF/foot!) on electrostatic speakers are a no, no, we can make an amplifier oscillate at high frequencies and cause clipping in the audio band and that is the problem.
All the above is why a good sub cable can use a star quad. Not just ours, but any star quad design all things being the same is better electrical properties. This is why the new 1310A design is a nice cable for subs. Low inductance is best for high current leads and the lower we go in frequencies the more current we use. The price is right, too, for extreme low frequency applications.
SUMMARY - star quad is the best way to get low inductance with high CMA area and reasonably low capacitance with a good dielectric and subs take advantage of all the benefits.
Galen,
I’m confused about the statement “Low inductance is best for high current leads and the lower we go in frequencies the more current we use.” In the case of the High Level input for REL subs, the current is very low - only the voltage is high because the input impedance of the REL amp is high so it has nearly no impact on the main amplifier. The main amplifier is driving the low impedance full range speakers, and the high impedance connection to the REL sub is in parallel, so the practical effect should be minimal. It seems to me that with a low current to the REL sub, the wire gauge can be moderate so it can be more easily managed.
Please clarify the parameters associated with the High Level input.
Thank you.
Mark
