Belden ICONOCLAST Interconnects and Speaker Cabling

If the tank is in a small insulated enclosure it will need more than a few hours of below freezing weather to be a problem. You could just add walls and insulation to your current 4 legged shed. If you add a couple of eye bolts going thru rafters in the roof you can lift it off in one piece for service work.
Mine is only used during the summer so I just drain it down in the fall and leave it open.
You will have critters that will enjoy the enclosure so make sure it is critter tight. Also you might consider making floor that is solid concrete pavers or poured to keep the little buggers from digging their way in.

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I’m replying to myself, but to all as a further observation of the Series II TPC, before I send them back to Belden / Iconoclast.

I’m adding @rower30 and @BobBJC to insure they get this update. My first new comment is, at least in my system, 200 hours was not enough time for the SII to fully come into its own. I’m not sure when it happened exactly, but I once again swapped my other cables back in, and when I did it was not the same as the first time. Gone was the slight discontinuity between the OFE I and the TPC II. The combination now sounds like the best of everything I’d ever want to hear from a pair of speakers cables (yes @aangen, that I can afford :smiley: :smile:). The same voice top to bottom, all expressed as music and not “sounds”. I’ve been spending the last week cleaning records, tidying up my sound room, and getting ready for my first “mini meet” tomorrow in my new home. I was going to use my other cables, as they are nothing to sneeze at, but as I was listening the last couple of days, and today ended with the Dire Straits track Brothers In Arms from the 45 RPM MoFi release, the tune ended and the one word that came to me was “glorious”.

@BobBJC , we’ll be talking about a purchase :wink:, but I would surely love to know when other variants may make themselves available.

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I read your post several times. But I am still not clear whether you are keeping them or they were not a good fit? Or are you just returning trial length cables for custom lengtb?

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Oh, there will be a purchase. Yes, I do need both my existing OFEs and whatever new (SII TOC or SII ???) cable built to a new length. Bob sent a trial pair the same length as my existing OFEs, but in my new room these are too long. So I need to send these back to be adjusted, and will buy a SII pair the same length for the uppers. But I’d like to get @rower30 ’s further thoughts as to what any other SII variants might bring - so far I’ve gotten the impression that the differences with the SII variants may not be as great as they were in SI. If that’s the case then I’ll likely go with the TPC.

Sorry for the confusion. I should have been more clear.

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Mr. T.,

For the break-in owner’s, that series II has HALF the current in each wire, but the wire is smaller (higher DCR) that offsets that some.

A 24 AWG is about ~400 CMA- REFERENCE
A 28 AWG is about ~158 CMA - 40% smaller.

A 24 AWG is about ~26 ohm/M’ DCR- REFERENCE
A 28 AWG is about ~66 ohm/M’ = (400/158*26).

We have what we need to look at the I squared R losses.
If we assume 0.5 amps, we have the current in EACH 24 AWG split in two across 48 parallel wires. We calculate;
24 AWG = 0.50 * 0.50 * 26 = ~6.500 watts / M’
28 AWG = 0.25 * 0.25 * 66 = ~4.125 watts / M’

We have half the current in the 28 AWG per reference length (I used 1000 feet). This will lengthen the break-in time ~57% or so (4.125 * 1.57 = ~6.5), or equal the watts disipated in each wire being near the same.

That’s what the numbers say at least. Figure roughly double the time to settle the series II based on the series I time in your system.

The series II TPC make a pretty decent jump in spatial 3D image specificity. But I’ve been wrong on stuff before. We will have to see as user’s experience’s are different on break-in and I expect the same on wire science experiences. The data says we are running out of real room for BIG change, but people report if I can hear it is better, I don’t want to lose it!

The numbers are never what we hear, just the way we make the same thing over and over that “represents” a reference for each user’s ears.

Best,
Galen

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Thanks Galen. The numbers seem to support my surprise at change having occurred after about 200 hours.

Tony, we are happy to build you a new assembly that meets the needs of your new room.

Within “genre” (speaker cables,) “Series,” and with a length that is equal or greater" you have the option of trading in/upgrading copper variants within 1-year and receiving 100% of what you paid towards the upgrade cable.

I believe that Galen has stated that with the Series II design, that he does not believe that the perceived SQ differences in copper variants will be as obvious or significant as they are with the Series I speaker cables.

My experience has generally shown that you never “really” know what something sounds like until you produce it and see what is…

I am expecting even more amazing things to come from Galen’s design. We shall see! Still, no risk with these incredible TPC cables.

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Thanks Bob. Let me get these guys back to you on Monday first. :+1:

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Bob, within 1 year of the new or old cables ?

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Roger, upgrades and trade in parameters are first, within Series and genre. An XLR cannot be traded for an RCA, etc. A Gen 1 interconnect cannot be traded for a Gen 2 interconnect. A 10’ speaker cable cannot be traded within Series for a 5’ speaker cable and receive full value paid. We might have to refund money on a trade. We want to be accommodating but would like to stay in business. We also expect that the trade in cables are not kinked or damaged and to be something that another audiophile would be happy to have.

In the case of the new Series II speaker cables in TPC copper, a customer will have a full year to trade that cable on a Series II speaker cable in SPTPC copper and receive 100% of what they paid applied towards the SPTPC cable. Reasonable adjustments in length will be accommodated with pricing adjustments that simply make sense.

Keep in mind that we must then discount the trade in cables by 25% since we cannot and do not try to sell them as brand new. The trade in cables are thoroughly examined and tested before being packaged and placed into the previously auditioned inventory. These cables do not normally stay with us for very long.

We really do try very hard to make the upgrade path as painless as we can since we want our customers to end up with the very best that we offer understanding that there will always be system dependent variations.

Hope this all makes sense. Monday is coming…

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Bob, no further sense as to whether there will be a Series II OFE?

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Doubtful, very doubtful. Just so little of OFE in the speaker cables is sold. Very expensive to run Series II speaker cable but even more so with the with the minimum set up and run requirements set by Belden. A very complex design and lots and lots of individual insulated conductors. If we were running CAT6 by the tens of thousands of feet it would be a different story. Of course CAT6 only has 8-conductors vs 48.

Got it, thanks Bob

Do any users have experience with the locking bananas ICONOCLAST offers connecting to WBT Nextgen binding posts? I recall @BobBJC suggesting this when we started discussing speaker cables. My intuition is spades, but trust others here…especially since I have no experience. The non WBT end is M1200 PS Audio binding posts.

Bob tried to get back to me, but I missed his call and it’s too close to dinner hour in FL for me to try him.

Hi WATChad,

The M1200 is a low profile unit.

For these types of units it is easier to use shotgun banana straight in.

A spade is still the best gas tight connection, and some sit the low profile units on a small riser to give a little more clearance from the bottom of the spade to the counter top it sits on. Or, hang the unit off the back of a shelf and bring the cable up into the five-way post. Some have even drilled HOLES or a slot in the bottom shelf to align the posts to an up and in method. This gives the cable a little more radius to bring the spade into the connector.

The M1200 connectors aren’t “polarized” from what I can see from the picture that forces a specific entry point. I’d check that with owners or PS Audio, though. Some WBT are “oriented” such that only ONE entry angle is permitted.

Here is a picture of that restriction in entry angle. The spade HAS TO enter as shown to match the plastic safety shroud. No big deal as there is plenty of room…but on an amp that is on the floor and squat, it might be.

Not everyone can lift the unit based on where they are, and some get low profile amps BECAUSE of the space restrictions. Both spade (get the right size!) or banana can work, but the banana is the easiest approach, not to be funny with the words, and the spade is always king on those worried about long term gas tight connections. I agree with Paul, reconnect your stuff every six months or so. Problem solved.

Best,
Galen

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Thanks, Galen.

Oddly, I just got off the horn with @BobBJC (who has been helping me along with a few things) and attempted to explain the layout. Here’s a quick pic or two (the right side is identical):


I’m likely going to order a Belden 1310A cable, and then move to the ICONOCLAST OFE after I’m 100% sure about size and termination (I have another place for the 1310a in my HT). I know from reading that the ICONOCLAST is much stiffer, which makes me thing spades. The idea is a short run with the class D amps and low efficiency Harbeths.

Thanks again. Look forward to figuring out a killer fit and getting this business done.

WATChad,

Your M1200 are on riser stands like I mentioned, so a bottom up should work. The two polarity “legs” are not super stiff, just the cable body is. Sit the M1200 terminals at the back edge of the stands and you’re set! I used to hang my amp off the edge of my amp stands, too. Works real well for cable organization.

Make sure to get the right spade SIZE, more is not better. Most use 6.6mm to 7mm spade tolerance. We can send a spade to check for fit to be sure. Few need the 9mm tolerance.

Best,
Galen

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Series 2 Iconoclast speaker cables running the top end of my 1000-40 Carbons.

It’s a good day to be me. :grin:

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Vern, I sure wished I was there!! Enjoy.

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It’s a striking (in a good way) difference from the well run in Series I TPC’s that were in that location.
Bravo to the Belden crew!