Great review
Good to hear from you.
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How about three, four, five…, n parallel cables since doubling adds so much? I wonder at what number diminishing returns show up.
About termination, I guess they could be all terminated into single spades or bananas with some great care.
Capacitance will add and a bundle of Iconoclasts in a not-so-precise proximal array seems to me like not so optimal. @rower30
Galen, could you tell us about the issue of bundling Iconoclast speaker cables, and theoretically what would be the optimal way to have them proximally arrayed? Does it matter wether they’d be parallel in flat direction or on-top? As close as possible or farther?
Bill, thank you for the images, detailed review of your bi-wire experience and for your kind words for Jeff. Grateful sir!
Arenith,
The cap increases with more in parallel and decreases the useful assembly length. And, amplifier output damping factors vary based on reactance. Some amps hate high cap and many hate too low inductance (even add it to the output stage to counter typical situations). A little boost in electrical is OK, but going too far isn’t better and better.
The arrived at electrical with two series II in parallel are appropriate for most all applications. Going farther invites making things worse not better.
As far as orientation, little benefit to the arrangement. We use one-inch cable spacers to remove and meaningful coupling and help stuff stay in place nicely.
Best,
Galen
I’ve had Iconoclastic OCC XLR interconnects in my plans for a long time. However, their price tag has been a mental roadblock for me. Everyone seems to say that the OCC version is the most neutral sounding one and it’s ultimately the one you really want. Seems it’s sound advice to wait for the one you would really want. However, the TPC version is something I can see as something that I could defend as a wise financial choice. I’ve heard it described as a more colored cable but how exactly? I’m not absolutely opposed to color if it’s color that I would like. Can anyone give me some idea what flavor the TPC version imposes?
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I believe way back earlier in this thread there were comparisons between TPC and OCC XLR, and the conclusion was UPOCC is quite superior to TPC in terms of detail and naturalness.
I have a one-meter pair of XLR Gen.2 UPOCC available for sale, you can PM me if interested.
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Don’t get too analytical about this. The UP OCC has a TOUCH more richness over the TPC. Some will say an inch is a thousand miles and our bank accounts can sometimes determine that length! Compare the TPC to the UP OCC, they share more in common than differences where the UP OCC is a touch richer. Imagine a pastel painting compared to an architectural print. The 4x4 are BOTH Architectural in presentation with the UP OCC making ever so finer lines if you eyes (speakers) can extract it.
We have ZERO clinical evidence that this should be so, however. We can only report the copper’s properties accurately (grains and DCR). The cost is also a big factor. UP OCC copper is a slow “batch” drawn process and not a faster “continuous” draw process and the TIME and LENGTH are impacted to be SLOWER and SHORTER and way more EXPENSIVE.
Disclaimer, I use the series II TPC speaker cable (single run) in my system with the CLX. I’m not missing a lot and the extreme cost of the UP OCC makes me hesitant to use myself as the inventory is limited. Where I do use the SPTPC I have parallel 48" sections to my mono amp and to my speakers to again, keep the usage low. And no, this isn’t nice production material…it was the lab test samples of the final electrical approval runs that didn’t get tossed! My UP OCC XLR and RCA are also lab test length samples. The carpenter has the worst shoes.
Best,
Galen
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Send me an email to bhoward@iconoclastcable.com so that we can communicate. The TPC 4x4 XLR is an outstanding cable and a great value. We have an audition program that allows you to listen at home and in your system before you decide to make a purchase. You have nothing to lose by listening. You will be all smiles when you hear what these cables will do. They “get out of the way” and let you hear what the recording “and” your system really sounds like. Promise!!!
Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy day to respond to little ol’ me! Shocked that even you can be concerned about costs of your own cable in your own system.
Cable matching is very system dependent, so recommendations will only serve you when your system and the recommending party’s system are most similar. Knowing your system components and ultimate objectives when upgrading cables can be meaningful. I have the Iconoclast UPOC RCA cables and am very pleased with them. They are in a a system with a Pass Labs XA-25, Pass Labs XP-22, and Sim Audio LP310. Sources are Linn LP12/Denon DL-304, Jays CDT2-Mk3, Innuos ZENith Mk3. Iconoclast will let you try each of their cables for 30 days with you paying shipping both ways. Should you want the XLR UPOCC, a fine cable IME I’d work with Donald, @dchang05, a fine an honorable forum member.
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Yes, Donald and I exchanged a couple of personal messages last night. All on this forum have been very helpful and I appreciate everyone’s input.
On a separate issue, I must admit I’m personally reluctant to make any financial decisions so soon after the election. So many things up in the air right now. Frankly, my impulse is to lock all the doors and make do with my system as it stands. Pretty happy with it after all the changes I’ve implemented over the last year or so. Slow careful steps.
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@BobBJC or @rower30 is it possible to terminate an iconoclast rca cable keeping rca on one end and a female xlr on the other with pin 3 floating, pin 1 ground/shield and pin 2 signal? If so how much to do so for the pair of cables?
Just wondering as Blue Jeans is charging $62 for a pair of Belden 1505f cables terminated this way. It just seems a shame for the iconoclast cable to just sit around…this is for home theater, surround channels.
Remember, the RCA to XLR “cheater” cable loses the XLR’s gain advantage and the XLR’s common mode nosie rejection properties. If you don’t have any noise issues thus the cable isn’t working against interference so that’s a positive. The lower gain will USUALLY be sufficient to drive the source.
But yes, the shield of the RCA to PIN 1 ground and the signal wire to PIN 2 signal hot. Bob can check on the cost, should be about the same as an RCA to RCA. The XLR connector is cheaper but the XLR labor is tougher than the RCA so it is close to a wash. Bob can be most specific.
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Thanks, in this case the source is the balanced xlr (so need female end into source) to the current rca male into amp. I appreciate the help! Not sure if my clarification is useful in any way!
Good morning, we can and sometimes build an assembly as you describe and the cost would be the same as the RCA to RCA. I usually recommend that rather than build a cable that would be difficult to sell down the road if component configurations change that audiophiles consider a super high quality but not expensive adapter from www.moon-audio.com
Good morning Bob,
I am actually using adapters currently with my iconoclast rca, my concern is that due to the stiffness of the cable the stress being put on the xlr connection seems higher due to the leverage of the adapter! I could also be making up a problem that doesn’t exist and you could tell me it will be ok and I will be happy with that too!
Otherwise, any thoughts on the costs to reterminate one end to female xlr for the pair of cables?
Bob’s suggestion is best overall, but male or female XLR on the opposite end is wired the same inside and it is wired that way inside the adapters, too.
I moved my rack away from the wall about 12" so there is ample room for cables, and boy was it easier to reach back there and do things as a result. It looks like hell but everything is happy.
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PM sent.
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Happy Birthday @BobBJC
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Happy Birthday, Bob!
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