Belden ICONOCLAST Interconnects and Speaker Cabling

Phoenix connectors would be a bit tricky in terms of physical durability – but let me have a look and see what we might be able to figure out. I assume this would be for interconnect, not for speaker?

Yes, interconnect only. Speaker would be banana on amp and pins on speaker. Do you do the welded connectors on this cable?

Here is the price sheet I have.

I have done it. It is easy. And this was comparing the Belden to other excellent cable. More impressive, non-audiophiles did so as well.

I do not intellectually like that wire sounds different, but there is no question it does.

1 Like

We haven’t done any welded terminations on these – the spades and bananas are all Cardas, soldered on. I imagine the weld wouldn’t be problematic but we’ve never tried it.

That is the old price sheet when Belden was working through Hanson Audio and some other hi end stores. Ignore those prices, the new ones through BJC are significantly lower.

I did notice that you can now buy speaker cables less than 10 feet long, woo hoo! Not a big savings but a savings none the less.

I do understand and appreciate your statement. But you have to realize that as much as we all want to think our sensorial skills are without imperfection, that is simply not the truth. So, I believe you when you say you could hear no difference, but that does not mean differences cannot be heard by anyone.

You also cannot reasonably discuss audible differences in cables without defining both the equipment and environment. I think many would agree that if a cable does make a difference, the change is more on the subtle end of the spectrum, but there are exceptions to everything. And if a cable is to have a fighting change to make an audible improvement, the system must be at a level to allow for such change to be perceptible. The same goes for room treatments - one of the most overlooked aspects of high-end audio. If the room is creating an “audio spaghetti” due to reflections, comb filtering etc., even if the cable was making a difference, it will not likely be perceivable.

I have no idea about your listening skillset (could very well exceed mine) or the system in which these cable comparisons were made (could very well be superior to mine), but I do know that such a definitive statement ignores countless variables that are at odds with that claim.

Above all, I am not trying to be disrespectful or argumentative so please don’t take this as an attempt to start a brawl. It is just a difference of opinion.

As someone who has spent many hours at Harman in their blind listening turntable system, I promise you all you can’t pick it out. You can certainly disagree with me though.

Sorry, but for me it is easy to tell the difference between certain cables, such as the Beldens which I like a great deal. I can also pick out Analysis Plus cable as I dislike the way they sound even though I like their theory of operation. I find this telling as I was biased toward liking them.

I am certain however there are a good number of cables I would find indistinguishable.

I take no position as to what you can, or cannot hear. To do so would be presumptuous.

Would you mind sharing which of the AP cables you auditioned? They are one of the few that do share the “tech” behind their design concept/philosophy.

Oval 8 speaker cables. They are a pretty purple.

Ah yes, that is a perty shade of purple! I have gone through more cables than I want to admit to. And in that journey I have been through pretty much the entire AP tier of IC’s and speaker products, up to the Silver lines and Solo Crystal Oval 8’s. The Silver Oval products, both analog IC’s and speakers cables have a class difference sound characteristic. If you get a chance to hear them, I would recommend it.

Interesting. I will have to give them a try at some point.

We swapped out a pair of AP Silver Ovals for Iconoclast TPC in my friend’s system. Not to be offensive but just to let you know what happened, we had planned to swap the two pairs in and out but when we put the Iconoclast in we just laughed when the music started. Not even one swap back to the AP cables and they were sold long ago. Galen was there and as anxious as any parent would be of watching his “kid” get put in the game for the first time. It was a memorable moment and a big relief for Galen. We still talk about it.

Not offended. And likewise, no offense to you, but I make decisions solely based on what sounds best in my system. I have to. We all have too. I have no idea the subjective preferences of you, Galen or anyone else in that room, but it really doesn’t matter because there is no wrong or right in this game. Nobody has to like or agree with my purchase decisions. Just like food and drink - there are plenty of people who will love and hate every single thing on this earth - Iconoclast included. I have not compared AP’s or any other cable to Iconoclast so I have no opinion as to how they stack up. I will take note of your opinion but in the end of the day, we all beat to our own drums and have to make purchase decisions based on the audio equipment we own (which is as unique as DNA when considering room acoustics - but you know this) and the environment in which we listen.

Funny thing is, nowhere in my post was I attempting to compare AP to Iconoclast, or infer it was superior. So, your post does come off a bit tendentious and “sales pitchy,” to be completely honest.

2 Likes

The only way to proceed. Cables appear to be particularly idiosyncratic.

I am certain there are system in which the Iconoclasts sound dreadful, and those where the Silver Ovals are luscious.

Intellectually I dislike this as it indicates cables are acting as a filter or otherwise changing the signal.

(Tendentious is a wonderful word I do not see often.)

I feel that there is a sort of synergy in using a full loom from one mfr and model type, i.e. Iconoclast IC’s and SC’s.
Anyone else find this to be the case?

So where is the explanation of all the current levels since it appears the current info on BJC is different then what I postd? Maybe @galen-gareis can explain it all so it makes sense. It would be nice to know what each level represents other than the typical “it cost more so it must be better”.

Your approach to picking audio gear is dead on. I only made the comments because of what happened that evening and it’s not to imply anything derisive about AP cabling. It was early on for Iconoclast. Galen had a small group of beta testers and this was the first time that he had been present with anyone in the group other than myself to have a listen. All forum members, btw.

Galen would understandably be nervous, regardless of the competitor cable.

Galen’s words from July 9th earlier in this thread:

'The best system is the one that WORKS with minimal connectivity. If you get a set of leads, I can RE-TERMINATE with the FURUTECH spades. Just buy proper QTY sets of the spades and send them to me with the cable and I’ll git’er done for you. Free. Let me know, I’ll give you my secret address (ha!).

The jacket color is for the price class of the copper. The BLUE is SPTPC (silver plated ETPC copper) or OFE (oxygen free certified copper) @$4600.00. The RED jacket are bare ETPC copper @ $2300.00

The sound differences are as such;

ETPC are very fast and dynamic with an excellent left / right/front/back soundstage. Excellent holographic space around each instrument / event.

OFE - On most systems, these are WARMER leads. They pull the image FORWARD and as a result of that, not as dramatic a sound stage as the ETPC. On “hot” systems they will tone it down.

SPTPC - The silver is ONLY a thin layer on top of the copper and thus, can’t change the fundamentals at all, just the harmonic overtones. Those with Beryllium tweeter or electrostatic speakers approve of the added “air”.

For Vandertseen’s I would use the ETPC or the SPTPC as they are already a very smooth speaker and a little quickness and dynamics in the presentation are good. They aren’t real efficient, so the extra contrast and open sound stage is what you want unless you like a way warmer presentation.

All cables are physically and electrically IDENTICAL R, L and C testing, except for the copper’s material phase contributions to the electromagnetic wave, that accounts for the difference in the sound. We hear PHASE and arrival times very well. The low inductance also improves PHASE (QED paper), but the copper is also changing the superimposed electromagnetic wave, altering the sound. As the conductor is ISOLATED (exact same structure holding the wire), the draw science/grain is fully responsible for the changes. No one will admit that the exact SCIENCE of WHAT is happening hasn’t been repeatably defined. If you can’t repeat what you know you don’t know it from a test or sound reference.

See the QED paper (http://www.qed.co.uk/downloads/pdf/soundofscience.pdf 12) for PHASE responses, and how copper’s structure can alter what we think may be happening to the creation of the electromagnetic wave. I can’t DEFINE the exact measures of the copper, so it is a transparent choice. True, it is hard to listen to bi-amp leads as they are special to Vandersteen.

All cables should be a pre-conceived management of electrical properties. The physics described in the QED paper are very real, and EVERY cable will respond to those properties. The trick is ti BALANCE all the variables to a structured design that offers as good a balance as can be achieved at a given cost. The best cables SHOULD be able to EXPLAIN why the cables work, and as physical proximity of all the wires is responsible for the R, L and C you should seek out WHY the wires are structured as they are. Cable should not be an accident that happens to not be a short!

Thank you for your interest in ICONOCLAST’

Updated link to the paper referenced https://www.qed.co.uk/downloads/qed/soundofscience.pdf