Question to the great specialist in grounding.
I have just connected a Nordost Qkore1 to my Furutech Vault power strip. As expected, this brings silence.
I would like to know if it would be relevant to connect the amps to the terminal of the Furutech Vault power strip ?
Thank you in advance for your answer and I wish you a very happy New Year’s Eve
2 Likes
Looking at the Nordost owner manual it seems that they suggest the QKore6 to connect also R and L amps.
Having a QKore1 specifically intended for the power strip, I’d say it’s enough. I mean, I’d not connect also the amps to it or to the power strip to answer your question.
If the Nordost wasn’t present, I’d try connecting both amps and pre to the power strip but this isn’t your case currently.
Take that with a grain of salt, I’m not certainly a “grounding expert” at all and I have direct experience just with CAD products.
1 Like
Hi Luca,
Thank you for your reply.
For signal grounding I am hesitating between Computer Audio Design, Entreq, Signal Ground Solutions and Shunyata… the offer has considerably stifled in a few years.
2 Likes
FWIW and I don’t know why, but Synergistic Research generally does not advise grounding power amplifiers, though it’s okay to try…
2 Likes
Especially amplifiers or other devices that don’t have a ground lug for that purpose.
1 Like
Today is the first day of the last two weeks that I could relax and listen to some music. The kids flied back to NY after a two-week vacation in my house, and we boxed the plastic Christmas tree and decorations that were in the listening room for another year. I finally have the room back to my music enjoyment.
I removed the chassis grounding cables from PST and LHY SW-6 a few days ago. The whole idea was inspired by yet another article talking about this grounding concept. This time was from Shanyata Research. Their big idea is to separate digital gear ground and analog gear ground, but the separation of signal ground and chassis ground is not as crucial in their book.
After removing grounding cables from PST and SW-6, I do not believe I heard a difference with them connected to Puritan RouteMaster. If anything, the sound seems to be better without the grounding wires. But it could be that I simply do not remember how good the system sounded two weeks before. 
Now only PowerZone and M1200 are connected to RM. SW-6 and PST do not have any grounding connection. But frankly, do I still need two more grounding boxes for them? The improvement after three boxes seemed trivial really, and I will probably change my mind a few weeks from now.
3 Likes
“…and I will change my mind a few weeks from now.”
Took out “probably”.
You’re welcome.
1 Like
Some of you may wonder why I sold my Puritan Routemaster and Groundmaster City. After I posted the above, I disconnected RM and simply ran two grounding cables from PZ to each M1200. Surprisingly I heard a cleaner sound without RM attached.
When I had all PSA gear, the RM helped in providing a darker background. However, after installing MU2, and especially PZ, I could not hear any improvement from RM anymore. Finally, I decided to do what Luca does, and he is right again that this arrangement is better. So, this means RM would only help in some systems. If you have gears that already sound exceedingly clean and clear, RM would start losing its effectiveness and go the other way (unfortunately this also means more expensive gears).
4 Likes
However, I had also heard from someone that additional grounding is not necessary if power cords have a high-quality, low-impedance grounding conductor. Stealth cables in particular are advertised as having a very high cross-section of the ground conductor.
The other way round speaks for a separate low-resistance grounding, that interference and potential are diverted there and not inside the power cable.
When I get the Marantz Link 10n, I’m wondering what the grounding is like, including the signal ground. Marantz components do not have a ground connection at the power input.
1 Like
One fellow who makes and sells power cables says the secret is to make them without the ground plug. He recommends buying the little adapters that do that for cables with non-removable ground pins. He believes that is the secret to better sound with cheaper cables. He believes expensive power cables are a waste of time and money.
I just ignore such concepts myself. And I am ignoring ground control products in the future. That rabbit hole hasn’t held my attention. The PowerZone could be part of why I feel this way.
4 Likes
Slight correction, he makes and sells speaker cables and interconnects. He refuses to make power cables. Sorry I didn’t mean to retell your story but I think I know who you were referring to.
1 Like
You brought up a very important point. And it was me telling your story. Doh!
1 Like
Maybe I’m ok with that. Stories are meant to be retold! That’s what this forum is for.
2 Likes
Just to help the thought process a little bit. A true GROUND can’t have noise on it, it is zero volts @ earth potential by definition. What people refer to as ground noise, is a high DCR leg ABOVE ground and acts like a “signal” lead relative to true ground. There is a potential voltage.
We can make sure all grounds are the exact same zero DC potential (theoretically impossible as we have “wire” between the ground points of different DCR’s). The best solution is to isolate the signals ground plane to a small geographic spot where the wire DCR is mitigated. Some erroneously call this a single point ground, which is a larger global ground point.
Galvanic isolator can also work that break up a longer ground path and create a smaller local ground plane.
Another method is what I call passive RF absorber, make the impedance to a signal progressively higher as the frequency goes up. The expensive EPDM dielectrics used in ICONOCLAST acts exactly this way, the cable doesn’t pass RF well at all. This is clearly tested and shown in the data briefs.
The last method is brute force. Everyone asks what AWG cord should I use? For a super small current sink devices a smaller cord is fine. The voltage across the cord (resistance is the LENGTH of the cord) is proportional to the current. We can’t control the current but we can reduce the DCR so E=I*R is managed this way. Thus if we keep making the cord’s DCR lower won’t that make the residual voltage dropped across the cord smaller too? Yes, it will. One of the main topics of what is called BONDING is to make sure all the paths to ground (bond them together) are sufficiently low DCR. Using heavy power cords is a method of bonding the devices to the ground point. This also tries to mitigate ground loops to a lowest possible DCR such that they are inaudible.
Another method that is used is to force noise to go common mode and use a balanced circuit to remove it passively like when we use XLR cables. Some of these boxes do exactly that, they just run stuff through a balancing transformer or active circuit and make the signal balanced and the noise unbalanced and cancel the noise. Nothing wrong with that.
Before I bought a “box” I’d ask what method is used to remove the noise from the signal GOING to true ground so you understand the principals it is using. One or more? The problem isn’t the final destination at true ground, it is the PATH to that true ground.
A system with a true ground can’t have noise on it. Power cords with no safety ground (green wire) are dangerous as hell as the chassis could go HOT and when you touch it YOU are now HOT. Well, you’re hot for awhile until your dead body cools off. A device that has a three terminal plug is not double insulated (AC power is totally isolated from the low level “signal” circuit and chassis) and should never, never, never use a clipped ground power cable.
Most stuff the chassis is not double ISOLATED/INSULATED. A box in a box if you will. RCA usually use the metal chassis as the low level signal ground reference as an example. But the 120V AC isn’t using the chassis as the power GROUND (neutral white wire). The HOT AC (black wire) is on the opposite side of the white neutral wire power ground and not what we call earth (green wire). If the hot black wire or any HOT part of the circuit get across the chassis it is now HOT, not neutral. But With the green safety ground attached it will pop the breaker when it senses current on that wire, if you don’t remove it!
Being killed isn’t worth removing noise. Never, never pop the safety wire ground off your devices. Yes, at the circuit box the neutral and green appear the same, the thing to learn is that on the opposite end of the wire the PATH back to the circuit box isn’t the same. You never want the path back to be the green wire!
4 Likes
Words to live by - literally!
I plugged a Nordost Qkore1 into my Furutech Vault power strip and it brought more silence.
But I read that replacing the supplied ground cable with the Nordost “Premium” ground cable had a significant impact. I found a good deal on a Shunyata Omega ground cable. Since the Omega range has a good reputation, I said to myself, I’ll give it a try.
And indeed, it brought more silence and focus.
I don’t have a Computer Audio Design ground box but maybe plugging in a very good ground cable : Entreq, Shunyata or even Steath could bring a more interesting plus.
2 Likes